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Thread: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker NoOnesFang13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic View Post
    Did I ever mention that I have a Spidervalve? You know, the one that has a Line 6 modeler feeding into a Bogner designed tube amp?
    I wonder what ever happened to those?

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    I remember when they came out, i always wonderd why they decided to go with the spider instead of the flextone or the other higher end model they had at the time. I assume cost

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    Just because something isn't made anymore, doesn't mean it wasn't a good product. Not all good ideas make a ton of money.
    No, but I had one.I never express any opinion unless I have tried it myself. My code had that digital clipping artifact, sounded like the speaker was cracked. It needed a software update I guess, away it went

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Unfortunately, software updates are a way of life for many digital devices. That's usually a good thing, though, as it can solve a lot of problems.
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    Super Toneologist DavidRavenMoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDERBUDWISER View Post
    Those codes are so great, so great they dont make them anymore. I had one, and it wasnt good at all. I guess I had to get the latest firmware and yada yada. Pulled my little Peavey toaster 6505 and it sounded good to me in about 3 seconds. I understand pros like you can make anything sound good, I dont want to work so hard
    My Code 100 sounds great. But if your the kind of person that just plugs into an amp and that’s your tone, it’s not for you.

    Also you have to get past the first 20 patches that have lots of effects on them. The straight amp models sound like the real thing. I’ve compared them next to a real JCM800 at my rehearsal space.

    I’ve just had a recent firmware update. Didn’t seem to change anything.


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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    Unfortunately, software updates are a way of life for many digital devices. That's usually a good thing, though, as it can solve a lot of problems.
    I work in the computer security business and spend a great deal of my professional time thinking about software updates. One thing I like about analog gear, is I get away from all of that

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbc View Post
    I work in the computer security business and spend a great deal of my professional time thinking about software updates. One thing I like about analog gear, is I get away from all of that
    This is why it is so wonderful that we have choices.
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    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbc View Post
    I work in the computer security business and spend a great deal of my professional time thinking about software updates. One thing I like about analog gear, is I get away from all of that
    Me too.

    In my opinion, software updates are commonly abused these days . . . allowing companies to release half finished products knowing that they'll just try to fix the issues through patches later on. I want the thing that I buy to work as designed the first time. Not wait a few months, hope that a patch comes out to fix the problem that was there when released, then hope that that patch doesn't break anything else.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    Me too.

    In my opinion, software updates are commonly abused these days . . . allowing companies to release half finished products knowing that they'll just try to fix the issues through patches later on. I want the thing that I buy to work as designed the first time. Not wait a few months, hope that a patch comes out to fix the problem that was there when released, then hope that that patch doesn't break anything else.
    So, I work a lot with pro audio vendors -even consulted and specified an audio console on the market today by on of the large format British Console companies, and I can tell you that software, FPGA based processing etc etc, has given the Audio vendor incredible versatility, simplified their ability to deliver across different scales and markets on one base, and the ability to fix bugs, and add future features to products purchased -sound good on paper right?

    HOWEVER -what I see mostly in the pro audio market, is that software has given manufacturers the ability to release buggy and unstable, unproven products into the market and improve them later. Meaning they can promise at the trade shows a product or technology and get it partially into the market and fix it later -it's a real problem in the video and audio markets. The competition is such that they feel the need to be present with the performance and features to at the cutting edge for that season, WITHOUT having to fulfill the quality and stability you should expect.

    Now, because of the flexibility of firmware and software fixes, these products eventually usually deliver - but I wouldn't be in love with any first generation digital audio product for live or critical applications -I'd wait a year and let them bake in the promises they made the year prior.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Having worked in the IT world for the better part of 25 years, I can tell you that the trade show monkeys and sales reps sell things not implemented or even on the development life cycle radar so they can get a commitment on a sale. I've seen it time and time again. Now, I can understand discussing features that may be in the pipeline or currently being worked on as a method of getting interest and some sales, but to mention stuff that isn't even in the works just because a competing product has it is just wrong! I can't tell you how many times I've seen development managers lose their sh!t on sales reps over those stunts.

    I don't mind a solid digital product for my rig. Hell, I use AmpliTube at home on an older iPhone for practice and I wouldn't hesitate to use it at a gig if I had to. Granted, my first choice is and always will be my amp, but I won't turn away something else if it works for me. I miss the tone of my 100 watt tube Marshall head, but I don't miss the weight of it.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikH View Post
    Having worked in the IT world for the better part of 25 years, I can tell you that the trade show monkeys and sales reps sell things not implemented or even on the development life cycle radar so they can get a commitment on a sale. I've seen it time and time again. Now, I can understand discussing features that may be in the pipeline or currently being worked on as a method of getting interest and some sales, but to mention stuff that isn't even in the works just because a competing product has it is just wrong! I can't tell you how many times I've seen development managers lose their sh!t on sales reps over those stunts.

    I don't mind a solid digital product for my rig. Hell, I use AmpliTube at home on an older iPhone for practice and I wouldn't hesitate to use it at a gig if I had to. Granted, my first choice is and always will be my amp, but I won't turn away something else if it works for me. I miss the tone of my 100 watt tube Marshall head, but I don't miss the weight of it.
    Over the course of reading this, i pictured you screaming at at Cisco 9k switch, and throwing Windows ME machines out the window
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Over the course of reading this, i pictured you screaming at at Cisco 9k switch, and throwing Windows ME machines out the window
    That's funny. I can honestly say I never had to deal with a switch like that (not on the networking side, more OS and software / hardware). As for Windows ME, format C: .

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikH View Post
    That's funny. I can honestly say I never had to deal with a switch like that (not on the networking side, more OS and software / hardware). As for Windows ME, format C: .
    Windows ME was easily the ****tiest OS ever. Nightmares!!!

    -followed not so closely by Vista and maybe JAVA
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Windows ME was easily the ****tiest OS ever. Nightmares!!!

    -followed not so closely by Vista and maybe JAVA
    I installed Vista on my home PC when it came out. Spent a year trying to get stuff working . . . and it eventually drove me to uninstall it and use Ubuntu for six years. Vista was such a ****ing terrible piece of software. It was a significant downgrade from XP.
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    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikH View Post
    Having worked in the IT world for the better part of 25 years, I can tell you that the trade show monkeys and sales reps sell things not implemented or even on the development life cycle radar so they can get a commitment on a sale. I've seen it time and time again. Now, I can understand discussing features that may be in the pipeline or currently being worked on as a method of getting interest and some sales, but to mention stuff that isn't even in the works just because a competing product has it is just wrong! I can't tell you how many times I've seen development managers lose their sh!t on sales reps over those stunts.
    Seriously this, as a software dev.
    "Thank you sales reps for promising a product we don't have and definitely cannot write to work reliably in that 6-month deadline you promised them."

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    I installed Vista on my home PC when it came out. Spent a year trying to get stuff working . . . and it eventually drove me to uninstall it and use Ubuntu for six years. Vista was such a ****ing terrible piece of software. It was a significant downgrade from XP.
    XP and 7 were the best.

    I still have a machine that runs XP -never touches the internet of course.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    For a time in the Sixties Vox ceased production of valve amps, particularly in the USA, in favour of SS. They saw this as the way forward, so were ahead of the game in that sense. Then production of tube units started again despite losing the market share in tube amp manufacture they once had, and continues today. Marshall are another case in point. They too have dabbled in solid state but in 2018 released the Origin & Studio models, both valve amps and both sold out.. According to Marshall management, some things are best done with valves. They still feel the combination of ECC83 & EL34 tubes are central to the classic Marshall sound. So I guess the two will co exist for some time to come ...

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidRavenMoon View Post
    My Code 100 sounds great. But if your the kind of person that just plugs into an amp and that’s your tone, it’s not for you.

    Also you have to get past the first 20 patches that have lots of effects on them. The straight amp models sound like the real thing. I’ve compared them next to a real JCM800 at my rehearsal space.

    I’ve just had a recent firmware update. Didn’t seem to change anything.


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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    so I haven't / won't read this whole thread because who ****ing cares but is it really "better" technology?

    Tube amps from the 60s are still alive and kicking. Digital amps from the 80s and 90s are pretty much all broken and dead and useless.

    I don't think technology is "better" just because it uses more microchips and can do more things. If it needs to be replaced every 2-5 years, it's not worth paying $2000 for. My Sunn model T was $300, still has its original tubes and sounds better than every new amp I've bought for too much money since I got it.

    I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Pockets View Post
    I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
    Tube amps lose for sure then. :P You've got to replace the tubes when using them regularly. Where they've got the edge is that a great many of them were built in the time that point to point soldering was the height of technology. Because of that, they're very easy for anybody with a soldering iron to replace parts in. A modern tube amp with a circuit board has no edge in reliability or longevity compared to a similarly constructed solid state amp.
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    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Pockets View Post
    so I haven't / won't read this whole thread because who ****ing cares but is it really "better" technology?

    Tube amps from the 60s are still alive and kicking. Digital amps from the 80s and 90s are pretty much all broken and dead and useless.

    I don't think technology is "better" just because it uses more microchips and can do more things. If it needs to be replaced every 2-5 years, it's not worth paying $2000 for. My Sunn model T was $300, still has its original tubes and sounds better than every new amp I've bought for too much money since I got it.

    I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
    EEPROM will leak its storage after 10-20 years but you can refresh the firmware a hundred thousand times before it loses the ability to store anything. Conservatively, if you had to refresh the firmware every decade, you could still get a million years out of it without any extra costs, unlike tube changes that are more frequent and expensive.

    You're right. The better technology works for decades without needing replacements. It's digital.

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