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Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

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  • Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    No doubt this point has been made before, but i'll ask, if solid state technology is so good now, particularly from the likes of Roland, Audio Fractal and Kemper, why are tube amps still being made when even old school pros are taking to the brands I've mentioned ?. I believe there are as many brand of valve amps today than in the 50s & 60s, with some brands that were not even around during those years.
    Magnatone are still here, as are Supro who have been making tube amps since the 1930s. They clearly created a template in sound which solid state is trying to emulate and better.

    There has to be some intangible vibe to the kind of sounds/tones you get from good ones that people can hear and feel; the kind of thing you cant measure or pin down. One dark cloud with these is how long the tubes are going to be made...

  • #2
    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Because non-tube amps got a really bad name when they first came out. Then amp manufacturers couldn't sell them at high dollar, so made non-tube amps their cheapest lines . . . with ****ty components and ****ty design. So the concept of non-tube amps being ****ty was really driven home.

    It's possible to make a great sounding digital or solid state amp, but the highest quality amps made by most companies today are all still tube amps . . . so that's what most people want to use.
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

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    • #3
      Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

      Fractal and kemper I believe are merely modelling tube amp tone via sampling a real amp. So they do nothing on their own.
      But the entry cost is still high, and the learning curve steep.

      Many would rather having something that is plug and play. And that is certainly not what a lot of the more complex systems are.

      The issue that many face in comprehension is that just because some find it better, doesn't mean others automatically have to, or that people should be forced to change.
      I mean, if tube amps are selling, which they are, why would you assume makers of tube amps would stop making them........seems utterly illogical to anybody really.

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      • #4
        Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

        Originally posted by AlexR View Post
        Fractal and kemper I believe are merely modelling tube amp tone via sampling a real amp. So they do nothing on their own.
        But the entry cost is still high, and the learning curve steep.

        Many would rather having something that is plug and play. And that is certainly not what a lot of the more complex systems are.

        The issue that many face in comprehension is that just because some find it better, doesn't mean others automatically have to, or that people should be forced to change.
        I mean, if tube amps are selling, which they are, why would you assume makers of tube amps would stop making them........seems utterly illogical to anybody really.
        I thought this thread is just beating a dead horse, but this comment made it worthwhile.
        "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
        Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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        • #5
          Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

          Well, we still make BBQ grills, analog clocks, and manual transmissions. Some people like doing it the old way, which will never change. If there is a market for it, a company will make it.
          Administrator of the SDUGF

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          • #6
            Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

            Who makes the best tubes?.....seems there is a lot of variation in price and a lot of claims made about tubes that may be dubious . Most are from china..then there is Slovenia and Russia.

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            • #7
              Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

              Tubes are only made in about a handful of places in the world now. Perhaps 3-5 places. That means most all tubes you buy are rebranded. Groove Tubes is making a really good business of rebranding tubes for instance ( may he rest in peace ). The vendors buy the tubes in bulk that meet a criterion and then the vendor classifies the tubes based on quality, current draw, etc. It wouldn't be a far stretch to bet that your JJ tubes are the same as your EH tubes or your brand of choice. Many of the higher end tubes are not made by them ( Genelex, for instance, is made by New Sensor ). JJ is one of the few companies actually making tubes and you can bet they are selling to other companies as well as an OEM. So to get back on topic though.....

              Tube amps appeal for a multitude of reasons. The predominate one is likely pedigree. If you have a Diezel, Soldano, Bogner, Friedman, Dumble or whatever, you know you have the best tube amp that your money can buy. Who do you buy when you want the best solid-state amp you can buy? A Roland, Randall ( from the '80s and 90's ), Line 6? And not one of them are hand made nor cost as much as any of the aforementioned tube amps. Tube amps are analog, so there is little that can go wrong and when it does, there are actually user-serviceable parts inside. When you want to build a tube amp for yourself, you can buy several different variations of many different models of amps and it is still cheaper in most instances to the more basic modelers available. Perhaps the most obvious reason is that as guitarists we just like to be able to reach over, turn a dial and turn back around and keep playing, which is hard to do with digital anything. And you just can't weed out the most basic principle of KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. It is just easy, simple and more rewarding when you have your favorite tube amp pushing air at your legs.

              Modelers and other digital amps just aren't what even a basic tube amp is, simple, easy and of course WYSIWYG ( what you see is what you get ). No menu's, no choices and no complicated layouts, just a guitar and an amp. Perhaps the biggest thing going for tube amps is distortion. There is nothing else like it. digital and solid-state devices have been trying to emulate the sound since the creation of silicon chips and just haven't been able to do it. Tosin Abasi is using Morgan amplification now and has gone through several digital platforms to come full circle back to tube amps. Tube amps just do what we want them to at a price we can afford with a value that we can quantify. If you think in 20 years from now that your Axe-FX is still going to be relevant and even still working or fixable if it isn't, your living in a pipe dream. You can buy a Fender Blues deluxe today and it will still work and at least be fixable probably 50 years from today. Tubes will always be a mainstay in the music world because you just can't beat the simplest and most basic thing.

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              • #8
                Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                New Sensor is owned by EH and makes EH tubes, Genalex, Sovtek, Svetlana, Tung-Sol and maybe some other brands I can't remember in Russia.

                JJ makes their own tubes in Slovenia, it's old Tesla factory that used to be in Marshalls.

                So you certainly wouldn't find EH labeled JJ tube...

                Shuguang makes their own tubes in China, there's other manufacturers too there.

                GTs, Rubys, TADs, amp branded tubes etc... are rebranded and come from those manufacturers.
                "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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                • #9
                  Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                  Don't forget, the sound/tone of tubes are not the only appealing part of a Tube Amp experience, and honestly, the feel part is probably more of the preference now that Solid State and DSP has caught up to at least very very close with the tone portion

                  There's that compressed surge lag on the attack that people get used to, and also the sustain is different (traditionally), and I'm not sure if Kempers and Fractals model that part well -but I know some real players had trouble with the A/B comparisons recently, but when you play a Solid State the lack of that latent attack is immediately apparent to many, this is why technical Metal guys started moving to SS amps in the 80s -because they valued the precision feel over that surge and sustain feel.

                  But there is something amazing and charming and real about the surge and sustain feel of a tube amp -and so Tube amps will continue for another generation.
                  “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                  • #10
                    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                    Get the guaranteed best price on Guitar Amplifier Stacks like the Line 6 AX2 212 Amp and Floorboard Combo Package at Musician's Friend. Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items.


                    You spent some hard earned coin and bought a super versatile amp when it came out and after all these years, it took a great smelly dump. Now you think you need to replace the mother board.
                    What is going to be your course of action?
                    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
                    And with strange aeons even death may die.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                      Mark Knopfler recently took to Kemper profilers on stage in the US ..something that has made Kemper very happy! I guess they just happen to be convenient for him for that purpose ...I doubt he'll give up his old amps though
                      Last edited by Gold star; 09-04-2019, 01:07 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                        I think Metallica runs Axe FX for all their sounds. Indeed for fade to black they have a 12 string simulator so the 6 string acoustic for the intro is switched In processing for the verse riff.
                        Billy Gibbons for many years has run an intelligent parametric eq sampler that takes the eq of his live guitar and merely turns it into what Pearly would have done for the same notes played.

                        But each person has to sort out their own rig for themselves. Just because one person thinks the world of one type, doesn't prevent equally relevant opinions being held on the polar opposite side.

                        Sampling style setups are great for either cover bands, or indeed artists with a wide range of studio tones/on the fly switching type requirement. In both cases you can simply swap to wholly independent patches that dont share eq setting, preamp configurations or power amp tube types.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                          Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                          Don't forget, the sound/tone of tubes are not the only appealing part of a Tube Amp experience, and honestly, the feel part is probably more of the preference now that Solid State and DSP has caught up to at least very very close with the tone portion

                          There's that compressed surge lag on the attack that people get used to, and also the sustain is different (traditionally), and I'm not sure if Kempers and Fractals model that part well -but I know some real players had trouble with the A/B comparisons recently, but when you play a Solid State the lack of that latent attack is immediately apparent to many, this is why technical Metal guys started moving to SS amps in the 80s -because they valued the precision feel over that surge and sustain feel.

                          But there is something amazing and charming and real about the surge and sustain feel of a tube amp -and so Tube amps will continue for another generation.
                          The Helix has a sag knob on every amp model. You can make them as saggy or tight as you want.

                          There's only two advantages to tube amps anymore:
                          1) the amp in the room sound, because modelers capture the micced sound
                          2) the simplicity

                          I think the simplicity (or lack thereof) is the biggest difference. It's extremely easy to get a great sound on a good modeling amp, that's not the issue, but having a million options isn't something the human brain does well with.

                          Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

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                          • #14
                            Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?



                            "Get off my lawn" ...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                              Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                              The Helix has a sag knob on every amp model. You can make them as saggy or tight as you want.

                              Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
                              Whats your opinion on those settings compared to the real deal?

                              also, I'm not against modelers at all if they pass muster.

                              but for someone like me with about $30k in classic guitar tube amps -there's no reason for me to pay to change over to something imitating what I already have -although my big amps don't leave house or rehearsal place much -we use backline for big gigs.
                              Last edited by NegativeEase; 09-04-2019, 11:51 AM.
                              “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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