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Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
My guess is they will still hold up better than the modelers.. ' PCB or not they'll need to be a lot more robust/better put together/higher quality etc considering the kind of voltage/heat that tube amps have to handle. I don't think a modeler needs to deal with much more of that stuff than an iphone.."Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen
I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra
Originally posted by Rodney GeneIf you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
I don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.Administrator of the SDUGF
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by Mincer View PostI don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.
...everybody knows that's going to increase the mojo bigtime"Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen
I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra
Originally posted by Rodney GeneIf you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by Mincer View PostI don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnd that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Mesa was one of the ones heavily advertising using heavier PCBs and thicker copper traces to make for more rugged PCBs. With proper ventilation, those can be more rugged than point to point construction.
I used a Sundown amp that was pretty awesome... Until it became an electrocution hazard when multiple solder joints desoldered themselves in use. Point to point badly done can be unbelievably dangerous.
A properly built PCB can outlast a well built point to point. But a well built point to point is easier to mod and repair.
AC-30s are pretty infamous for problems on tour. IIRC, Brian May was taking something like 9 of them along, so he always had 3 working for his stage rig at any time... And they were modded with added cooling fans and vents. And still failed. Though some of that is his preference for Alnico Blues (two 15W speaker in a 30W amp, right at the edge of tolerance there, and then he hits the amps with treble boost and runs them all-out... recipe for constant speaker repair. And fried power sections if the speakers fail spectacularly enough.) Tough when your sound is built around a particular gear combination.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by Empty Pockets View Postabsolutely laughable and ignoring my point completely. I said in my original post that my Sunn model T from the 70s still has its original tubes in it and sounds great. Line 6 amps from ten years ago are all broken down and crapping out. Sorry, you're just not correct in your assessment. Digital amps break as soon as they get hot and dusty. Tube amps from 60 years ago are still cranking up and rattling walls.
Why would a Line 6 from ten years ago be broken down? Why would it get hot if it doesn't have tubes? Why would there be dust inside the unit when most modelers are sealed, or if not, why are regular expensive tube changes considered acceptable maintenance but a cheap can of compressed air isn't?
Are you trying to make the argument that tubes don't need to be replaced more frequently than 50 years?
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by ibanezrocks View PostWhy would a Line 6 from ten years ago be broken down?
Originally posted by ibanezrocks View PostWhy would it get hot if it doesn't have tubes?
Originally posted by ibanezrocks View PostWhy would there be dust inside the unit when most modelers are sealed, or if not, why are regular expensive tube changes considered acceptable maintenance but a cheap can of compressed air isn't?
On the other end of the scale I heard of a Soldano SLO owned by a studio in the UK. The studio flooded and the amp spent 2 weeks underwater, but after drying it out they fired it up and it still worked. The pots weren't even scratchy because SLOs are designed to be bullet-proof, and you pay for that.Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnd that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Would this be a good time to discuss the new modeling Twin and Deluxe?Administrator of the SDUGF
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by dystrust View PostHave you ever opened a Line 6 amp? Everything about it screams "CHEAP" from the thin PCB to the board-mounted pots and jacks. I'm not saying that tube amps are automatically better; Peaveys and Crates look pretty similar under the hood, and have similar reputations for poor reliability. It's more accurate to say that some things are built to last while others aren't, and most modelers fall into the latter category.
My laptop gets hot, but it doesn't have any tubes. Maybe there are other electronic components that give off heat as well, like CPUs or power amp transistors... [emoji38]
I think this says more about general build quality than it does about specific maintenance. Line 6 knows that modelers become obsolete pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things, so they don't bother building them to last. Their products are also designed to hit a specific price point.
On the other end of the scale I heard of a Soldano SLO owned by a studio in the UK. The studio flooded and the amp spent 2 weeks underwater, but after drying it out they fired it up and it still worked. The pots weren't even scratchy because SLOs are designed to be bullet-proof, and you pay for that.
Again, he's trying to push one example of a broken cheap amp onto the entirety of digital technology. It's an absurd strawman.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by ibanezrocks View PostSo we're comparing cheap modelers to expensive tube amps? Why not the modelers that actually show what the technology can do? If we're talking about which technology is better, we have to compare the best: we should be talking Helix and not Spyder or pocket pod.
Again, he's trying to push one example of a broken cheap amp onto the entirety of digital technology. It's an absurd strawman.
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I haven't tried a Helix, and I didn't care for the Kemper I tried, but I thought the AxeFx was awesome. The main reason I don't own one is because they're really expensive. The second reason is that I can get my Marshall serviced if something goes wrong, whereas a broken AxeFx makes a great (and very expensive) door stop.Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnd that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by dystrust View PostHigh end modelers like a Helix, Kemper, or AxeFx are built like a computer because that's essentially what they are. Compared to a Spyder or Pocket POD the PCBs are heavier and the pots and other components are better quality, but they're still not in the same league as the "expensive tube amp". Amps like the SLO and many vintage tube amps were designed and built to last for decades while most amps built recently aren't.
I haven't tried a Helix, and I didn't care for the Kemper I tried, but I thought the AxeFx was awesome. The main reason I don't own one is because they're really expensive. The second reason is that I can get my Marshall serviced if something goes wrong, whereas a broken AxeFx makes a great (and very expensive) door stop.
But they are not."So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
Iron Maiden - Wasted Years
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Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?
Originally posted by Jacew View PostActually, if they would have been built like computers, you could switch standardized parts in them, easily re-install and retrofit software, upgrade and such. Then they would last.
But they are not.Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnd that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.
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