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Thread: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

  1. #21
    LoveMachineologist jeremy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    i have some old amps but they sure dont have the original tubes. they are reliable and sound good so i dont really look for other things often

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    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    IMO playing a tube amp is like driving an old carbureted sports car with manual steering. It’s a visceral, “real” experience. My best and favorite tones have come from a tube amp turned loud with somewhere between 0 and 2 pedals, preferably with vintage style (aka passive, traditional construction) pickups. I like all the tones you can get out of modeling, my board has a few “amp in a box” pedals, but the best tones have always been then simplest.

    I’ve never played an AxeFX, Helix or Kemper through a loud tube amp into a guitar cab, that may be a revelation for me... but for now I’m happy.
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  3. #23
    Just A Minion ErikH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascension View Post
    I play tube amps simply because no solid state amp will do what a really good tube amp will. For many years I played single channel high gain tube amps and used few effects. I got my cleans by backing off my guitar volume and lightening my touch not a channel switch. Solid state amps can sound good on a preset but absolutely will not do this. I still run high gain tube amps today (although all i own right now are channel switchers) and will only own an amp that will respond well to touch. Most younger guys can't do what I can with a good tube amp because they have never had to learn how. I can play sold state and make them sound good but I loose the dynamics I am used to with the tube amps so don't simple as that.
    Had several of my rigs for many years they are well maintained and bulletproof reliable so why change?
    Example is here I have for many years been almost exclusively a Worship player this is a 1991 Marshall JCM 900 MK III Dual Master Volume 2501 combo. I am running nothing but a Delay in the loop and a Wah in the front in this clip at super low volume. You could not play this this way with a single channel solid state amp!
    Nice. Those MkIII amps are crazy dynamic. I would do the same as you and roll off the volume for clean (or clean-ish) tones. Sold my 100 watt head a few years ago. I miss the tone but I don't miss the weight.

    Thankfully, I'm able to get the same dynamics from current amp, a Vox AV30 combo. Nice and light but LOUD!!!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    I'd say part of it is the hands-on aspect, at least for those who have an electronics slant to their interests. You can shape the tone of the amp by swapping tubes, speakers, cabinet materials. On the other side of the guitar cable, you have the guitar pickups, electronics, body and neck materials. The strings are a factor, even the paint on the guitar. It just encourages tinkering. You don't get as much of that with the digital stuff. On the other hand, digital is only limited by the quality of the programming and your imagination. I think it has its own "beat" to it.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Through a PA and recorded, my Fractal is amazing. In a room, my amps sound better. Onstage, my amps sound better, but the Fractal fits better in a recorded mix (and is easier to mix out front). When it comes down to it, know which one I use?
    The one that is closest to the front door on my way out.
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    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Did I ever mention that I have a Spidervalve? You know, the one that has a Line 6 modeler feeding into a Bogner designed tube amp?
    I wonder what ever happened to those?

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic View Post
    Did I ever mention that I have a Spidervalve? You know, the one that has a Line 6 modeler feeding into a Bogner designed tube amp?
    I wonder what ever happened to those?

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    What was the verdict on it?
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    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Well, I love mine, so you can draw your inferences from there.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbc View Post
    On the other side of the guitar cable, you have the guitar pickups, electronics, body and neck materials. The strings are a factor, even the paint on the guitar.
    One thing about solid state and digital "amps". They make a fantastic "reference" amp for tinkering with guitars. Tubes are wonderfully flexible, but also a bit on the inconsistent side when it comes to their tone.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    My guess is that the partnership ended...either it was for a closed period, or one of the parties wanted out.
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    Mojo's Minions Ascension's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PFDarkside View Post
    IMO playing a tube amp is like driving an old carbureted sports car with manual steering. It’s a visceral, “real” experience. My best and favorite tones have come from a tube amp turned loud with somewhere between 0 and 2 pedals, preferably with vintage style (aka passive, traditional construction) pickups. I like all the tones you can get out of modeling, my board has a few “amp in a box” pedals, but the best tones have always been then simplest.

    I’ve never played an AxeFX, Helix or Kemper through a loud tube amp into a guitar cab, that may be a revelation for me... but for now I’m happy.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikH View Post
    Nice. Those MkIII amps are crazy dynamic. I would do the same as you and roll off the volume for clean (or clean-ish) tones. Sold my 100 watt head a few years ago. I miss the tone but I don't miss the weight.

    Thankfully, I'm able to get the same dynamics from current amp, a Vox AV30 combo. Nice and light but LOUD!!!
    Sold this combo but at some point intend to find a 50 watt head. LOVE these amps but rare to play now days where I can really use a single channel combo. With a head I can crank it on stage run a cab miced in the back for many places or when playing a loud Church or outdoors run a 2/12 cab. These have great sounding loops for a little verb and delay throw a wah in the front and then a CS -3 for ebow style infinite sustain and feed back and I'm set!!
    1993 old band Carvin DC 200 MK III compressor live for the ebow style stuff and feedback.
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    Last edited by Ascension; 09-04-2019 at 09:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Whats your opinion on those settings compared to the real deal?

    also, I'm not against modelers at all if they pass muster.

    but for someone like me with about $30k in classic guitar tube amps -there's no reason for me to pay to change over to something imitating what I already have -although my big amps don't leave house or rehearsal place much -we use backline for big gigs.
    I've had Helix Native for over two years and my Helix Rack for about a year (IMO, the hardware Helix sounds a touch better, probably because of how the DI box/interface affects the sound before it gets to the plugin). As Despair said, the feel and dynamics are absolutely there. The added benefit that the Sag control gives you is a real treat, too: I turn it down on our patches using the PV Panama (5150) model and it makes the amp noticeably tighter. The stock cabs leave a lot to be desired for me, but I use third party IRs (primarily from OwnHammer and ML Sound Lab) direct to front of house, and even our FOH engineer says that they sound so similar to our actual cabs that he actually prefers that we go direct because of the added benefit of consistency.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    So the only modeling amp I have ever had was a really low cost Fender that came with the guitar I had purchased. It was fun at the time but the more I delved into guitars/amps I was really drawn to tube amps since my thought was if it broke I should be able to fix it and plus everywhere I looked that was what people were using.

    A bit after that I decided I wanted to build my own tube amp to learn some more about them. So I went ahead and built a very nice 50 watt Marshall clone. It was great being able to pick and choose what components I wanted in the amp along with the choice of power/preamp tubes. Great fun.

    So reading through this thread and seeing some of the brands mentioned I just did a really look over at Fractal’s webpage since I felt these type of amps had to be PC board based device’s. The second paragraph down on their flagship product stated this:
    “Two 1.0 GHz, floating-point “Keystone” Digital Signal Processors (DSPs) comprise the main audio engine. These processors are the most powerful DSPs available delivering over twice the performance of the DSPs used in our previous generation products. To feed these advanced processors we coupled 4Gb of blazing fast PC1600 DDR3 memory, hundreds of Mb of FLASH memory, a proprietary FPGA and a rich set of peripherals.”

    So just based off of that it makes it very clear they are PC based devices. My point and or question for these type of devices would be, well what happens when the “now newer DSP” comes out? Do these devices have some way of being “upgraded”, pretty much like a firmware upgrade or is the owner now holding outdated technology? In my mind, and I could be really wrong on this is, that to me they seem like a PC, almost outdated by the time you get it home.

    For a tube amp, if some new component comes out that may change the way the amp sounds and you like it, solder it in or try different tubes. What do folks who use these types of devices do?

    Again, I have never used one so my above thoughts were just a things that came to mind.

  15. #35
    HardtailPisser ibanezrocks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exojam View Post
    So the only modeling amp I have ever had was a really low cost Fender that came with the guitar I had purchased. It was fun at the time but the more I delved into guitars/amps I was really drawn to tube amps since my thought was if it broke I should be able to fix it and plus everywhere I looked that was what people were using.

    A bit after that I decided I wanted to build my own tube amp to learn some more about them. So I went ahead and built a very nice 50 watt Marshall clone. It was great being able to pick and choose what components I wanted in the amp along with the choice of power/preamp tubes. Great fun.

    So reading through this thread and seeing some of the brands mentioned I just did a really look over at Fractal’s webpage since I felt these type of amps had to be PC board based device’s. The second paragraph down on their flagship product stated this:
    “Two 1.0 GHz, floating-point “Keystone” Digital Signal Processors (DSPs) comprise the main audio engine. These processors are the most powerful DSPs available delivering over twice the performance of the DSPs used in our previous generation products. To feed these advanced processors we coupled 4Gb of blazing fast PC1600 DDR3 memory, hundreds of Mb of FLASH memory, a proprietary FPGA and a rich set of peripherals.”

    So just based off of that it makes it very clear they are PC based devices. My point and or question for these type of devices would be, well what happens when the “now newer DSP” comes out? Do these devices have some way of being “upgraded”, pretty much like a firmware upgrade or is the owner now holding outdated technology? In my mind, and I could be really wrong on this is, that to me they seem like a PC, almost outdated by the time you get it home.

    For a tube amp, if some new component comes out that may change the way the amp sounds and you like it, solder it in or try different tubes. What do folks who use these types of devices do?

    Again, I have never used one so my above thoughts were just a things that came to mind.
    Hardware is updated by buying new hardware, but firmware is updated all the time. The Helix has had very good support. They add more effects and amp models and you get it for free. The competition in this space is growing and consumers are benefiting.

    After a certain point it's not necessary to upgrade the hardware. The Helix will still sound good 50 years from now. Increasing the DSP power just lets you run more effects at a time. There'll be many more Helixes I'm sure, but I doubt the sound will be noticeably different.

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    Ultimate Tone Slacker Jacew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ibanezrocks View Post
    Hardware is updated by buying new hardware, but firmware is updated all the time. The Helix has had very good support. They add more effects and amp models and you get it for free. The competition in this space is growing and consumers are benefiting.

    After a certain point it's not necessary to upgrade the hardware. The Helix will still sound good 50 years from now. Increasing the DSP power just lets you run more effects at a time. There'll be many more Helixes I'm sure, but I doubt the sound will be noticeably different.

    Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
    Ironically, it's very unlikely that that hardware will be working anymore then, where as tube amp will sound exactly like it does and work just the same it did 50 years before.
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    Aceman is MR SPEED JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Why do people who like tubes spend so much time griping about digital and solid-state?

    Why do people who like digital and solid-state never spend any time griping about tubes?

    Seriously, if you like using tubes, that's great. If you like digital or solid-state, that's also great. If you're Plini, and have played onstage in front of legions of fans across the world before you've ever even plugged into a real amplifier, I kind of think that's even cooler than the other two.

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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Why do people who like tubes spend so much time griping about digital and solid-state?

    Why do people who like digital and solid-state never spend any time griping about tubes?

    Seriously, if you like using tubes, that's great. If you like digital or solid-state, that's also great. If you're Plini, and have played onstage in front of legions of fans across the world before you've ever even plugged into a real amplifier, I kind of think that's even cooler than the other two.
    Wait, now I'm confused... WHo's griping on here?
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Speaking as someone who has built and modded tube, I use both. Modeling has gotten to sound good enough now with some studio knowledge helping out.

    10 years ago, I woulda (and did) laughed at modeling.
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    Default Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Funny, what I have been loving lately is my 2 Tech 21 amps, a Trademark 60 and a 10. They pre-date digital modeling, so they are sort of analog modeling.
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