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Thread: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

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    Default SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Iíve just built a guitar using the above information with a switchcraft 3 way toggle. The differences I made to the diagram; coil splits, B500k on volume with a treble bleed circuit. Series/parallel, A500k on neck tone with a deep bass cap and phase switching on A500k bridge tone with a 0.01 cap.
    The problems that have arisen is when in bridge position on the toggle thereís hardly any sound, both the tone pots seem to be reversed and when in the same toggle position the two coil wires on the neck pick up go to ground. I have checked the wiring several times and cannot locate any faults but maybe I cannot see the wood for the trees 😫🔫
    All caps are bipolar. All pickups read as they should when disconnected but they are mock up pickups before I fit some SDís just to make sure that everything is working fine. They seem to be reverse wired and theyíre from a Fender HH jazzmaster chrome/black housing. All parts are new and Iíve been racking by brains for days and I cannot find the fault. Can anybody please help
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  2. #2
    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    my neighbors got quite the collection of Matsumoku guitars and some are quite cool. I'd skip the treble bleed if you're using a B500k pot as a volume. Unless you used the A500k pot instead where the treble bleed would even things out.

    by the sounds of it
    master volume - series / parallel on one of the pickups
    bridge tone - out of phase
    deep bass cut - I'm not familiar with this unless you're talking about the G&L style one in the PTB wirings which I didn't have really any luck with
    3 way toggle

    help me fill in the blanks for the wiring and I'll draw something out for you tomorrow afternoon

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    First thought, SD wire colors are different from Fender and others. Did you get your wire colors converted correctly from the diagram for the test pickups you are using?
    Quote Originally Posted by Demanic
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    I did find the DS-1 in the garbage.
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Hi they're great guitars, I got this one from a neighbour with a beyond repair neck, been in the damp so I rescued the body and made it my project. I've rewired a couple of others and modded my cry baby wah with dual Fazel inductors(Keeley spec) and no problems but this is driving me round the bend
    The volume is coil split with the bleed
    Neck tone is series/parallel
    Bridge tone is phase switching
    I followed the Seymour diagram up to the point of treble bleed and I also added a push to break momentary switch which I have removed to eliminate that causing a problem.
    The pickups are the G&L style as no Fender stamp on the back
    I couldn’t find a diagram so I worked them out with a meter, compass aand screwdriver
    Neck pickup
    screw coil red + white - 6.64
    Slug coil green + black - 7.06
    Bridge pickup
    Screw coil
    Green + black - 6.91
    Slug coil
    Red+ white - 7.21
    Thanks for the reply and hope this helps
    Both coils are split on the left and right centre terminals of the DPDT. The deep bass capacitor on the neck tone 0.6 if I remember.
    Both tones are in reverse, clockwise turns them down. Toggle in bridge mode, no much at all. Toggle in neck and centre position, The readings are exactly the same in split or humbucker. In bridge just goes open circuit. Both pickups read fine when disconnected from circuit.
    Last edited by DalC; 10-18-2019 at 09:09 AM. Reason: More information

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Hi and thanks for replying and yes I worked them out
    Neck
    Screw coil red + / white -
    Slug coil green + / black -
    Bridge
    Screw green + / black -
    Slug red + / white -
    Hope this helps regards

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    The A500k pots are Bourns and the B500k volume pot is Alpha.

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Another thing I discovered is that the green/white wires to the split switch on the volume pot on the neck pickup (grey lead), goes to earth in single coil mode when in series but not in parallel.??

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    never used G&L pickups myself. Usually when I see green and white together I automatically assume bare knuckles pickup color code.

    By the sounds of it you're using a 0.068uf tone capacitor as a filter right? If so this is easy to apply to the wiring.

    for the neck tone is it series / parallel to make one of the pickups go parallel. Or is it to join both pickups output together they were trying for?
    I'm assuming parallel to make a single pickup go parallel for that weaker hum cancelling sound.

    So this is what I'm assuming the wiring will do so far. Correct me if I'm wrong or if you want to change it up to something better based on your personal preference.
    master volume - coilsplit ( both pickups? ) - with a treble bleed
    neck tone - out of phase
    bridge tone - parallel for one of the pickups - the quieter hum cancelling version
    3 way toggle
    mini toggle - on/on with the 0.06uf capacitor deep switch filter

    once everything is set in stone I can start drawing something out.


    For the tone controls working opposite the outer contact you'll want to change it. This is a good example on this wiring. Nowhere near your diagram but for the first fix
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Sorry about the pictures but I cannot alter it on my phone.
    This is the diagram I used for installation

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Diagram
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Yes the cap is a 0.68 on the neck tone for a deep bass sound and a 0.01 on the bridge tone for a woman tone or bright.
    The neck is wired to series/parallel which is also neck tone
    Bridge push/pull is wired to phase switching which is also bridge tone pot
    Volume push/pull is splitting both humbuckers to single coil.
    Sorry about useless picture am having issues

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    I’ve been having a read of my electronics guitar book and it explains about the tone suck when using series, phase etc. I don’t think there’s any problems with the wiring. However I’ve decided that there’s too much going on and I’m going to go for independent split coils on 2 of the pots and phase on the 3rd pot. Nice and simplish but not so much time drain, if this set up is possible with the phase included. I will experiment and see what happens as I can’t find any diagrams on this setup.
    I’m really grateful for your replies and help on this so thanks and take care if I don’t get a message. ������

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    I just noticed on their wiring diagram they did not put the grounding from pot to pot wires. They were even bold enough to label it. I hate when wiring diagrams don't as some people can really solder but take things too literally.

    With this type of series/parallel that the guitar produces it's bad out weighs the good.

    the good
    When you pull the series/parallel switch it makes both humbuckers turn into one with the switch up. You'll notice this at the input jack setting your multimeter to 200k in ohms. If I had say a JB/59 that would be 16k and 7.4k together giving me approximately 23k so a surprisingly hot guitar tone. Not seymour duncan blackouts high of output or will ever get the sound of overdrive pedals any time soon but some find it useful.

    The bad
    However when the switch up assuming this gives the series/parallel what ends up happening is to create this sound you lose a lot of the controls. I had this on my favorite guitar for a week and the selector did nothing in position 3 (neck) , position 2 and 1 was just bridge as both pickups were together. The other issue is my volume and i believe tone did absolutely nothing until I hit down on the switch.

    You have a really good technique based on your photos with soldering so here's one to try. A suggestion to try at the end of the day as long as it's tones you like or will find use out of your guitar this does almost everything. To add out of phase to this wiring you need a special switch such as a Fender S1 or a 4PDT (4x3 on/on switch) to make it happen.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by shadowfire90; 10-19-2019 at 12:04 PM.

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    oh and here's your diagram fixed
    The tone controls are in the right order now
    The pot casing grounds are added.

    They should either fix this diagram or take it down. Then again that's asking a lot they had that wrong Jimmy Page wiring up for 5+ years and only a USA telecaster guitar wiring that had no indication that the cheap import switches have to be wired up totally different if they have one pole.

    hope this helps. Try this before my over the top diagram
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by shadowfire90; 10-20-2019 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Hi Shadowfire, yeah you hit the nail on the head. And they don't even earth the bridge pot to the other pots, only the bridge, of which I was going to do anyway after testing. And when the switch is in bridge position the readings are in M ohms in series. There's too many output variations and make it very frustrating. You would continuously be on the amp volume. I want stable output but I know phase will drop but I like that nasally tone. I don't have to add phase to this guitar as I've already got one that I modded with that. I had problems with another SD diagram I followed with a lack of earthing. It's about time they took a good look at their diagrams before misleading enthusiasts. I have some knowledge of electronics but not the mathematical side as a genius like yourself. I can't thank you enough, You're a gentleman. Don't know why but its blocked me from viewing your attachment, quoting; "invalid attachment".
    Say to simplify things - is it possible to use the volume push/pull as phase switching, neck tone push/pull as individual coil split on neck and bridge tone push/pull as individual coil split on bridge? I hunted for a diagram on this setup and can't find anything. I'm assuming this is not possible as the coil splits would have to be on the same pot as this configuration would not engage the phase circuit. Would this be possible if I used a standard (non-push/pull) pot on the volume and 2 coil splits together on 1 tone pot and phase on the other?
    Last edited by DalC; 10-20-2019 at 03:52 AM.

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    I fixed the last image so if it doesn't pop up let me know. I enjoy using photoshop as that is how I put all these diagrams together and it's quite quick for me to do so. I made this while I was eating lunch. All the hard work of getting all the old potentiometers and so forth where they are blank has been done which was a headache to do but now I can pretty much generate them.

    Here's two versions of the wiring you're after with the added bonus of hum cancellation in position 2 with both push pulls up. Any way I can make this better let me know.
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    Hi Shadowfire, yes I definitely want to use 2 different tone capacitors for variation. All I have to do is just add a cap to the neck pot and remove the link to the 2 tone pots, is that correct?
    Your diagrams are great by the way. Photoshop is brilliant, if you know how to use it. I'm surprised that Seymour Duncan haven't given you a job, to be honest.
    Regards
    Last edited by DalC; 10-21-2019 at 06:24 AM.

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    I appreciate it. Yeah the older diagrams are easier to work with. How I got into drawing out diagrams was it helped me understand more complex stuff and I remember seeing certain wirings on forums over the last 10 years and thought well.. I have a background in multimedia, why not do it myself to at least make some diagrams either cleaner looking as some were scribbled on pieces of paper and scanned I would see that worked to little things like converting to say Seymour Duncan color code. I can't stand Ibanez diagrams and Dimarzio super 5 way switch diagrams I really have to stretch my eyes even with one of those laa dee daa samsung curved monitors I bought for gaming.

    to add the secondary capacitor the easiest place to add it is the red wire before the input jack. The really "squiggly" one I've illustrated how to do so below. That would turn the capacitor on "full blast" to give you the deeper tone. I've heard of people using way smaller values for another effect. I'll send you a link to that article as well. Luckily polyester capacitors from Tayda2009 (ebay seller) are very cheap as the only capacitors we should avoid are ceramic if we play live.

    you could also switch between two of them and adjust the amount of the capacitor by doing what they suggest in this article
    https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/t...s-from-the-top

    and an excellent article premier guitar did the guy called it his warmth control. There is a lot of other articles similar to this that even i learn bits and pieces
    https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...warmth-control

    this in theory to add the second capacitor that just goes full blast, you could do two wires at the center of the DPDT switches left pole but this may make it easier to work with
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by shadowfire90; 10-21-2019 at 11:08 AM.

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    Cool Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    I've become attached to the Russian PIO caps. They're so durable you could build a nuclear missile with them, I'm sure they're military spec also. You still have to be careful with the heat but they can take some punishment.
    I used to buy Maplin build guitar effects back in the mid/late 80's. The best one I made was a Harmony generator which I think had a 6 or 8 way rotary switch for controls. I got an Antec basic iron from them which lasted for a decade and that's how perfected my soldering skills. I recently purchased a temperature controlled station and a second hand old Weller station with an analogue VU meter and that's the one I now do most of the soldering with now. I use 4% silver lead free solder & flux, which I love. The adjustable iron is OK but the old Weller just does it so much quicker and no adjustments on it. The problem with the variable one - I try to solder at the lowest temps possible and everything gets sticky & messy.
    I've not long got into gaming myself as injuries don't get me out much & I'm addicted to World of Warships, it's superb. I love Gran Turismo but the GT Sport should be called GT for Politicians....
    So I cannot just leave the caps on the pots? Will they not work like that with the phase switching? I don't want to add a mini toggle as I want to keep the blackout momentary switch in the spare hole. I don't want to alter the body in any way as I've seen this model go up in value

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    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

    A temperature controlled soldering iron does amazing work. I was at this event called "maker festival" last year and this guy in his 60s or 70s said how for PCB work to not use the soldering irons at hardware stores. I think he jokingly called them fire starters or something. They really come in handy the temperature controlled irons for sure with guitars I remember yesterday I was working on a guitar and the person wanted me to show them some ways to improve his soldering technique. He was all worried he was going to over heat the pot and i said no it's fine. That is a smart idea to use the lowest temperature possible. Usually 450, 550 and 750 i go between depending on the job. I found the really thick solder much easier to work with on guitars.

    There is a ton of great racing games out there. Especially with the website steam that offers 50-80% off on some games at times. I was always a playstation person when I was younger but for 4-10$ for usually 20-50$ games sign me up. I originally bought the monitor to watch movies as my computer desk is a few feet from my bed and the old monitor colors would go very dark if you are not at a certain level and this one doesn't so I love it for it.

    Good call to keep the guitar without any holes drilled. I thought there was already a mini toggle drilled.

    You could leave the capacitors in the guitar like the first diagram (which is below) I drew out where it is just out of phase and coilsplits. If you'd want to introduce the stronger valued capacitor perhaps put the two coilsplits on the same push pull? Just an idea and then the last push pull you could put the high valued tone capacitor you wanted in the original concept for the deep bass cut

    The approach would be
    master volume - pull up for out of phase
    neck tone - pull up for a coilsplit to either pickup depending on your selection or both in the middle position
    3 way toggle
    bridge tone - deep bass switch

    if you want me to draw a way to put two different valued capacitors let me know

    if this sounds like a good idea I'll update your diagram

    this is what i mean by first diagram for reference
    Click image for larger version. 

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