SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

I fixed the last image so if it doesn't pop up let me know. I enjoy using photoshop as that is how I put all these diagrams together and it's quite quick for me to do so. I made this while I was eating lunch. All the hard work of getting all the old potentiometers and so forth where they are blank has been done which was a headache to do but now I can pretty much generate them.

Here's two versions of the wiring you're after with the added bonus of hum cancellation in position 2 with both push pulls up. Any way I can make this better let me know.

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Hi Shadowfire, yes I definitely want to use 2 different tone capacitors for variation. All I have to do is just add a cap to the neck pot and remove the link to the 2 tone pots, is that correct?
Your diagrams are great by the way. Photoshop is brilliant, if you know how to use it. I'm surprised that Seymour Duncan haven't given you a job, to be honest.
Regards

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

I appreciate it. Yeah the older diagrams are easier to work with. How I got into drawing out diagrams was it helped me understand more complex stuff and I remember seeing certain wirings on forums over the last 10 years and thought well.. I have a background in multimedia, why not do it myself to at least make some diagrams either cleaner looking as some were scribbled on pieces of paper and scanned I would see that worked to little things like converting to say Seymour Duncan color code. I can't stand Ibanez diagrams and Dimarzio super 5 way switch diagrams I really have to stretch my eyes even with one of those laa dee daa samsung curved monitors I bought for gaming.

to add the secondary capacitor the easiest place to add it is the red wire before the input jack. The really "squiggly" one I've illustrated how to do so below. That would turn the capacitor on "full blast" to give you the deeper tone. I've heard of people using way smaller values for another effect. I'll send you a link to that article as well. Luckily polyester capacitors from Tayda2009 (ebay seller) are very cheap as the only capacitors we should avoid are ceramic if we play live.

you could also switch between two of them and adjust the amount of the capacitor by doing what they suggest in this article

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/bass-tone-caps-from-the-top

and an excellent article premier guitar did the guy called it his warmth control. There is a lot of other articles similar to this that even i learn bits and pieces

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/27869-mod-garage-swap-that-tone-knob-for-a-warmth-control

this in theory to add the second capacitor that just goes full blast, you could do two wires at the center of the DPDT switches left pole but this may make it easier to work with

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

I've become attached to the Russian PIO caps. They're so durable you could build a nuclear missile with them, I'm sure they're military spec also. You still have to be careful with the heat but they can take some punishment.
I used to buy Maplin build guitar effects back in the mid/late 80's. The best one I made was a Harmony generator which I think had a 6 or 8 way rotary switch for controls. I got an Antec basic iron from them which lasted for a decade and that's how perfected my soldering skills. I recently purchased a temperature controlled station and a second hand old Weller station with an analogue VU meter and that's the one I now do most of the soldering with now. I use 4% silver lead free solder & flux, which I love. The adjustable iron is OK but the old Weller just does it so much quicker and no adjustments on it. The problem with the variable one - I try to solder at the lowest temps possible and everything gets sticky & messy.
I've not long got into gaming myself as injuries don't get me out much & I'm addicted to World of Warships, it's superb. I love Gran Turismo but the GT Sport should be called GT for Politicians....
So I cannot just leave the caps on the pots? Will they not work like that with the phase switching? I don't want to add a mini toggle as I want to keep the blackout momentary switch in the spare hole. I don't want to alter the body in any way as I've seen this model go up in value

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

A temperature controlled soldering iron does amazing work. I was at this event called "maker festival" last year and this guy in his 60s or 70s said how for PCB work to not use the soldering irons at hardware stores. I think he jokingly called them fire starters or something. They really come in handy the temperature controlled irons for sure with guitars I remember yesterday I was working on a guitar and the person wanted me to show them some ways to improve his soldering technique. He was all worried he was going to over heat the pot and i said no it's fine. That is a smart idea to use the lowest temperature possible. Usually 450, 550 and 750 i go between depending on the job. I found the really thick solder much easier to work with on guitars.

There is a ton of great racing games out there. Especially with the website steam that offers 50-80% off on some games at times. I was always a playstation person when I was younger but for 4-10$ for usually 20-50$ games sign me up. I originally bought the monitor to watch movies as my computer desk is a few feet from my bed and the old monitor colors would go very dark if you are not at a certain level and this one doesn't so I love it for it.

Good call to keep the guitar without any holes drilled. I thought there was already a mini toggle drilled.

You could leave the capacitors in the guitar like the first diagram (which is below) I drew out where it is just out of phase and coilsplits. If you'd want to introduce the stronger valued capacitor perhaps put the two coilsplits on the same push pull? Just an idea and then the last push pull you could put the high valued tone capacitor you wanted in the original concept for the deep bass cut

The approach would be
master volume - pull up for out of phase
neck tone - pull up for a coilsplit to either pickup depending on your selection or both in the middle position
3 way toggle
bridge tone - deep bass switch

if you want me to draw a way to put two different valued capacitors let me know

if this sounds like a good idea I'll update your diagram

this is what i mean by first diagram for reference

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Hi Shadowfire, I definitely agree about the soldering on PCB's - you have to have adjustment & ESD safe. I've fixed the odd PS3 and its perfect for stuff like that. What I do to control the heat is use different size tips on both irons. On the fixed heat iron, I use the point tip to do wiring & mini switches & the standard tip to do pots. Another thing; I always use pure copper crocodile clips on pots & capacitors for heat dissipation(heatsinks), which work a treat.
On the controlled iron, the point to do PCB work, a 3mm tip for switches & wiring & a 5mm tip for pots. I think the max temp on the adjustable is 450. It's not to industrial standards. I wanted to get a Weller adjustable but even second hand they're prices are through the roof.
I've always had PlayStation & still got my PS1 in its box in the cupboard & Time Crisis 1 with the G Con gun. Got a PS4 pro now, its graphics are almost real & the speed but the HDMI is real delicate & a nightmare to fix as its also liquid cooled. Sony want £175 to repair or replace it.
I'm living pretty much like you - everything in one room, apart from the bathroom & kitchen. LOL
You must be sick of me by now but yes please I want to use the tone controls: bridge bright & neck deep bass.
IF it makes it easier I'm not that bothered about using the phase: that seems to make everything difficult here. As I have plenty of standard pots to use. Like I say, whatever's easiest for you. The spare hole in the body is for the momentary switch.
Kindest regards

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Not to worry today this is one of the only interesting forum posts for me to jump in and help someone.

time crisis i haven't heard of in ages but it was a staple in the arcades. I remember we would play on our old nintendo when we were 4 or 5 and me and my dad would play it fairly and try to aim from a safe distance away and my brother walks up to the screen and puts the light gun to the screen. We were amazed at how brilliant that is. But if I learned anything from the old nintendo and duck hunt its to aim at the brightest light possible. Some people would even aim directly at a light bulb. Angry video game nerd the youtube personality i think mentioned it Yeah for PS4 it's amazing how much of a jump it is especially games that have a really long list in the series like metal gear solid or grand theft auto.


Well either way whatever works best for you, super 5 way switches i think i've mentioned already are the only headaches but push pull pots or standard pots and switches are not a problem. So write me a list of what you want and I'll draw it out for you. I'm slowly waking up.

i can imagine
master volume
neck tone - both pickups coilsplit
bridge tone - deep bass mod
3 way toggle

or what did you have in mind? out of phase is easy to draw but hard to solder in the first few times.

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Hi Shadowfire, I am in the UK so I don't know what's a good time in Canadian time to engage on here.
I don't have a problem soldering Phase circuits but I get the feeling it interferes when splitting coils individually.
Can you tell me if this is possible to do please kind sir? Does it matter about the capacitance variations if they differ in the same circuit?
Bridge tone with bright capacitor(oh I discovered the bridge cap is 0.22 not a 0.01, so my apologies). Bridge coil split on bridge pot.
Neck tone with deep bass capacitor(I've just measured that one & it's a 0.1nf....sorry) for neck pick up. Neck coil split on neck pot. Can this be done or is there interference issues with this setup. I don't understand, that's what makes it difficult, you see...
And standard volume pot will do without the phase circuit.
Regards

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Lately my sleep pattern is anything but normal so that's the good news. I used to have a friend in Manchester and did my share of online sales so I'm good with time zones. If it was say 5am in Canada it's 10am in UK. When I used to do online sales people were always amazed at times I'm up 4am soldering something in and get right back to them with the same detail I give you guys.

here's a great video on explaining what the correlation between capacitors and pots is, this is explained by a guitarist for guitarists.

In my experience the only way you'd get out of phase single coils is with a 4PDT (4x3) on/on switch. I jokingly called it the super out of phase switch. One of the quickest to get ones is the Fender S1 switch. However the 4PDT switches from china are under a British pound each I can imagine. What I imagine would happen if you pulled an out of phase switch and a coilsplit is nothing as you'd need both coils to be active in a middle position.

there is an obscure mod called "series out of phase" which will make a humbucker sound like a 2 wire telecaster bridge pickup. Unless the pickups are quite high output I don't suggest it. It made this Dimarzio PAF Pro sound really thin like a pop can even with a Metallica or heavier band amount of overdrive.

for the deep bass capacitor 0.1uf will do the job nicely. 0.1uf is usually the most I'd suggest going on a passive guitar.


summed up quickly
the higher the value of the potentiometers the louder and brighter the guitar becomes. To get best of both worlds the "blower switch" mod as most call it is a must
the less pots the brighter the guitar becomes as well as traditionally pots are wired in parallel. Two 500k pots send out 250k. There is a parallel resistance calculator to try out online. Rule of thumb is two of the same resistances in parallel give you half.

with capacitors
the larger the value of capacitor the stronger the effect at 0 as in turned all the way down. If I put a 0.1uf (100nf) tone capacitor in a guitar and turned the tone control all the way down to 0 the 0.1uf capacitor cuts a lot more frequencies. One guy I love his explanation it was like being under water. Very old Fenders have these. Jimi Hendrix I believe used the same cheap green polyester capacitors we get online on sites like tayda.

the smaller the value of capacitors the less effect at 0 as well. For instance the 0.01uf (10nf) capacitor would only do half the work.

Now at 10. The difference going 0.01uf (10nf) to 0.022uf (22nf) may be subtle unless you really stretched your ears. However even at 10 a bit of our signal does pass through the capacitor. Kind of like on most electronics we have plugged into the wall there is tiny bit of current always inside of them .Whether say a radio is on or not. That being said. At 10 as in where we don't think it's on, it does indeed cut some frequencies.

another trick to get best of both worlds is fender no load tone controls but they don't make no load push pulls. Yet. I've been telling people about them for the longest time to hopefully get their sales up and I've never successfully put a push pull pot back together.

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

My first games console was the first Atari system before the 2600 model. I used to play Asteroids until I got to a million and at 999,999 it would then reset to zero. Me & my mate would go round his house after school & his mum would give us a tin of biscuits, leave us with the TV & his Atari & play Space Invaders until all the biscuits were gone. Defender & missile command were great games too. Never much liked Pacman.
Changing the subject: my friend just left me his Boss SY-300 guitar synth, for the week. It's quite fascinating, has 3 overlay, oscillator engines & you can get some amazing sounds from it. It has 4 banks of effects that follow. The problem though is you can use the same effect, say; 4 times, following the oscillator/s but you can't use different parameters within the same effect to create some unique, lets say, phaser. You also can't use the guitar effects without the oscillator/s. For around £700 a bit of a drawback, I would say but you can still talk to aliens with it!
Yeah I'm with you now about the independent coil splits. So I know of the Fender S1 switch which is also a pot, I believe. if I get one of those, would one of the pots be sacrificed; to make way for the S1 or would I need 4 pots for this type of setup? I like the sound of that if only 2 pots and the S1 are required.
Just looked online for an S1 switch and it's going to take me a week or 2 to get one delivered. I've designed my wiring to be removed; plug in style - so I can make up another setup, when I get the switch.
I was hoping to get this done by Friday. I'm very interested in doing this later but I want to make sure it's all good before I elaborate. I'm going to leave both coil splits on the volume pot and leave the phase on the bridge pot - use a standard pot on neck just to get things moving. I think this will get things moving for now.

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Very nice about asteroids, now today we're too spoon fed or gaming companies try to make us pay for every extra little feature. The American football series Madden or Dead or alive are outrageous. Pac man I had some pretty good memories playing the mrs pac man. But once super nintendo or PS1 came out who needed outside i'll jokingly say.

With the Fender S1 it's a standard volume pot with a push option. When you push it in you are theoretically engaging a 4PDT switch. This would be the only option to make the coil splits go out of phase. It would look like shoe laces or a diamond of some sort. If you did go with the S1 switch it would replace a volume, you'd get out of phase single coils if you'd want them and of course two coil splits. Where the neck would use the much stronger tone capacitor.

the reason why we need the S1 switch is every single coil would have to be thrown out of phase. I'll have to draw this out to ensure this will work.


**edit**
so i just opened up photoshop and realized, well, with my 12 tone wiring where you get everything under the sun the S1 switch would work.The reason is every coil is going somewhere specific. If we made a single coil go from ground to hot it would affect the polarity so hum even with the addition of the other two poles the S1 offers.

using three standard push pull pots your best bet is the humbuckers to go parallel. This way a standard push pull pot could do out of phase. It's a much easier wiring too.

However to get out of phase single coils is going to be tricky.
by 12 tone you'd get
standard humbucker tone
vintage single coil
p90 - a different type of coilsplit
parallel - for a weaker hum cancelling sound

if you were to add the S1 you could throw in a phase switch.

so it would be as follows
master volume - S1 - "super phase" switch
neck tone - 12 tone wiring part 1
bridge tone - 12 tone wiring part 2
3 way toggle
input jack.

The 12 tone wiring is quite simple
both push pulls down - your standard humbucker tones
one push pull up - you focus on half of the pickup - pick which works best
both push pulls up - you get the pickups parallel

position 2 on the switch everything is hum cancelling if you wire one humbuckers coils backwards

"super phase" would make every single option out of phase in the middle to my understanding. I've done this wiring twice.

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Hi Shadowfire, & thanks again for your reply. When they introduced GT Sport. Every other Gran Turismo, up to GT6 on PS3 no option to purchase anything. There was a second hand market also, that's gone now. And now you can buy cars if you're skint in the game. I just updated World of Warships; they've reduced the amount of credit you win in a battle unless you pay for premium membership. It takes forever to get to the next ship. Special ships are available for money plus invisibility which totally spoils the game. Never know ships to go invisible in battle but its all designed to dig into those pockets which ruins the whoe idea of gaming.
Yes yes yes I love the sound of that option. Super phase will also introduce me to the S1 as I've never used one. I will order one next week. BTW my sleep pattern is up the wall these days so catch up when I can.

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

Luckily there is a second hand market out there to buy used games. The super nintendo games I had a friend who was a collector and spent over 200 pounds on a game once. Some rare side scrolling game from the 90s he could have paid for free. I miss when it was just skill that got you where you nedded to go as what they are doing with madden 2020 was so bad even someone who hasn't sat through even 5 minutes of American foot ball finding out about is ridiculous.

This should do the trick. The red and white wires for the neck pickups "super phase" using the S1 you may need to reverse it's a 50/50 shot. I haven't used an S1 switch in a while but I'll provide the pin out on one. How you'll know it isn't working is that you'll just get series / parallel out of the humbuckers. If it goes well you'll have around 15-20 different sounds out of one guitar. Originally I figured this out on a 4PDT (4x3) on/on switch so this is actually my first diagram with an S1 I've ever drawn for myself or anyone.

with "super phase" the X type connections you usually find with out of phase are
the top and bottom rows
then the side rows , i should have used another color
don't solder any of those wires in the center of the S1 together.

[DalC]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

I'll be honest & admit that Gran Turismo 6 - I pre-ordered before release and paid £69.99 for the extra cars & credit. For that though I got over 2 years of entertainment from 1 game & I don't regret it. I still got it & would play it; if the broken second-hand PS3 that was played to death by my mate before he gave it to me - was repaired by me so many times that bits started to break off! I only had a standard controller & never even knew that throttle & braking response were variable on the L3 & R3 buttons. It was only after having the PS4 for about 8 months that someone told me about this. Now I got a Thrustmaster T300 GTE set-up & love it, especially with the old 70's American classic cars. Tune them up to the max 600 to 1000hp, lower them, set up the suspension, gearing, etc. The feel becomes quite real. So when all the fuel runs out in the world & everyone converts their old classics with Tesla engines - I'll still have an infinite fuel supply.
Anyways, back to the diagram, I am honoured & grateful to have your first diagram with a SuperPhase circuit. I will thoroughly enjoy creating that one...One thing...is the pot below the S1 switch - the pot side of the S1 switch, I'm guessing it is?
I've just ordered a bunch of Russian, high end, low tolerance caps from the Ukraine. If there's someway of getting them to you. As a gift for helping me, I would like to send you a few with different values if you would like to experiment with them. They sound amazing, it's up to you, let me know as I'm exceedingly grateful for your help, Shadowfire, talk soon.

[shadowfire90]

Re: SD diagram 2 humbucker 1 vol 2 tone split coils series/parallel phase switching

My brother was the same way with this japanese wrestling game he bought every piece of downloadable content and has spent over 1000 hours in the game as there is a ton of customization and so forth. All the american classic cars are always a treat. My father grew up in the 50s and said how you used to be able to look down a road and know it was a Cadillac or Ford. Now everything looks the same and the joke about how you used to be able to drive a car through a wall. Now the wall breaks the car.. ah good times. But it's always great with all the games they can add extra stuff to really make us feel in control of the cars where you can tell they either asked mechanics or were car lovers themselves. How small the team that made Gran Turismo 2 if I remember right it was amazing it came out to begin with but it was everywhere so it paid off.

Lets see how this wiring goes as I'm excited to see what it sounds like first. The 12 sound part is very easy to do. Just that S1. My fun is putting this all together