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1 riff, 22 amps!

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  • #16
    Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post
    Thanks for sharing your observations! The ones you didn't like tend to have a lot of mids, which in this song I personally really dug. I think you prefer tones that are a little bit more scooped?
    I have nothing against mids in real life, but it might be I was interpreting them as ‘harsh’ in those amps. Then again, I liked the sound of the Mesas in the video, which I guess are ‘scooped’ by tradition. I’m probably showing bias toward the DSL; I love my TSL and to me it didn’t sound dissimilar despite what people say. I don’t think anything sounded truly non-professional except possibly a few of the Oranges.

    I convinced myself I like Orange, but I’m beginning to wonder if what I like about them is relevant to the products they release of late. I’ve sold both oI had, but still on the lookout for a Crush Pro combo (Doesn’t help that a lot of their amps are priced higher than equivalent amps by other companies.) I might be falling out of love with them, but feel like those sounds (even the ones I didn’t like) would better suit stoner riffs etc.
    Originally posted by King Buzzo
    I love when people come up to me and say “Your guitar sound was better on Stoner Witch, when you used a Les Paul. “...I used a Fender Mustang reissue on that, dumbass!

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    • #17
      Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

      Originally posted by Silence Kid View Post
      I have nothing against mids in real life, but it might be I was interpreting them as ‘harsh’ in those amps. Then again, I liked the sound of the Mesas in the video, which I guess are ‘scooped’ by tradition. I’m probably showing bias toward the DSL; I love my TSL and to me it didn’t sound dissimilar despite what people say. I don’t think anything sounded truly non-professional except possibly a few of the Oranges.
      Honestly, of course we are all subject to the exaggerations and diminishing frequencies of the speakers when we listened to the video -before you even factor in preference and your ears and brain -so it's never going to be totally objective anyways. But I'd say I like aggro mids, balance, and distinct voicings -and am not big on more modern scooped tones or super saturated multi stage gain and compression from an amp -but I can appreciate it.

      but I have no doubt any of those amps could be voiced to be good and serviceable for most any rock application to most peoples ears. I don't view any of those amps as objectively "bad" -maybe voiced bad for my tastes -but not bad.

      We are living in times where even entry level 350 tube combos are pretty killer and 200 Solid state Combos are killer.

      It's not like the 80s where the gap between the garage band combo and the Professional stack are night and day apart in tone. They are closer than ever in many ways now IMO
      Last edited by NegativeEase; 11-01-2019, 06:22 PM.
      “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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      • #18
        Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

        Cool demo & a great collection of amps!

        One's I thought sounded best in this video:

        Dark Terror, Dual Terror (might even like this one best.I actually played one at the store a couple of days ago & loved it), Ironball, Fireball & the PRS.. Both Marshalls were pretty good too...

        Worst..the Fractal & Helix native..typical flat/plastic modeler tone..wish I could get over it 'cuz I do want to get a modeler for recording but everytime I walk into a store to check one out I end up playing a bunch of amp's instead. (Incidently the only modeler I've tried that did'nt have that "modeler' sound/feel was the Yamaha TH100HD ..that thing sounds phenomenal & feels awesome as well..like a real tube amp. Really loved the tones!)

        Not really into 6505's/EVH's either..especially the typical flat/compressed tone everyone uses nowadays (though I did think the EVH's sounded better/clearer here especially the LBX) & this video did'nt change that opinion for me.

        But nicely done & a good interesting listen
        Last edited by Phantasmagoria; 11-02-2019, 01:22 AM.
        "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

        I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

        Originally posted by Rodney Gene
        If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


        Youtube

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

          Heard the test.
          Conclusion: they all sound the same.


          My biggest concern is about the technique used for the test. Loadboxes, even the best reactive loadboxes of the market, flatten the tone. This is clear from many Youtube demos, this is what I noticed at a friend's house using a Fryette loadbox and different amps including Soldano, Dr.Z, Orange.
          In other word, if you take 10 different amps, put in through a loadbox, add an impulse response and record your signal, you obtain the same sound from all 10 amps.
          This is clear through this demo. And no, I didn't hear through my smartphone or laptop speaker. I heard through 2x 6.5" speakers.

          The best way to get all the nuances from an amplifier is the traditional mic, in front of a cabinet or into a good isocab.
          Using a lodbox, you are playing the loadbox rather than playing the amplifier.

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          • #20
            Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

            Great work. The DSL sounds ridiculously good, easily the best from the bunch IMO.

            Originally posted by loziodavid View Post
            Conclusion: they all sound the same.
            No, they don't.
            Wackor
            Řrdřg
            NecroPolo
            Diabolus in Musica
            SIDrip Alliance
            Book of Shadows
            RKH

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            • #21
              Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

              Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
              Honestly, of course we are all subject to the exaggerations and diminishing frequencies of the speakers when we listened to the video -before you even factor in preference and your ears and brain -so it's never going to be totally objective anyways. But I'd say I like aggro mids, balance, and distinct voicings -and am not big on more modern scooped tones or super saturated multi stage gain and compression from an amp -but I can appreciate it.

              but I have no doubt any of those amps could be voiced to be good and serviceable for most any rock application to most peoples ears. I don't view any of those amps as objectively "bad" -maybe voiced bad for my tastes -but not bad.

              We are living in times where even entry level 350 tube combos are pretty killer and 200 Solid state Combos are killer.

              It's not like the 80s where the gap between the garage band combo and the Professional stack are night and day apart in tone. They are closer than ever in many ways now IMO
              Also, there is a lot of range on most of the amps EQ's, anyone could probably tweak most of these amps to their liking. The reality is that for this video I just set them how I personally like them. I guess what I'm saying is, some of the amps that some people dislike could be great for those people if they had the opportunity to tweak the amps for themselves.

              Originally posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
              Cool demo & a great collection of amps!

              One's I thought sounded best in this video:

              Dark Terror, Dual Terror (might even like this one best.I actually played one at the store a couple of days ago & loved it), Ironball, Fireball & the PRS.. Both Marshalls were pretty good too...

              Worst..the Fractal & Helix native..typical flat/plastic modeler tone..wish I could get over it 'cuz I do want to get a modeler for recording but everytime I walk into a store to check one out I end up playing a bunch of amp's instead. (Incidently the only modeler I've tried that did'nt have that "modeler' sound/feel was the Yamaha TH100HD ..that thing sounds phenomenal & feels awesome as well..like a real tube amp. Really loved the tones!)

              Not really into 6505's/EVH's either..especially the typical flat/compressed tone everyone uses nowadays (though I did think the EVH's sounded better/clearer here especially the LBX) & this video did'nt change that opinion for me.

              But nicely done & a good interesting listen
              Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I didn't think Helix was bad at all in fact I think it sounds very realistic. It's not for everyone though, and that is ok! Enough stuff out there to please anyone!
              You did pick a couple of great amps as your favorites (as far as I'm concerned) but I sold the Dark Terror today because I just couldn't get it to sound right.... A lot of guys really liked that one in various of my videos though. Different strokes...

              Originally posted by loziodavid View Post
              Heard the test.
              Conclusion: they all sound the same.


              My biggest concern is about the technique used for the test. Loadboxes, even the best reactive loadboxes of the market, flatten the tone. This is clear from many Youtube demos, this is what I noticed at a friend's house using a Fryette loadbox and different amps including Soldano, Dr.Z, Orange.
              In other word, if you take 10 different amps, put in through a loadbox, add an impulse response and record your signal, you obtain the same sound from all 10 amps.
              This is clear through this demo. And no, I didn't hear through my smartphone or laptop speaker. I heard through 2x 6.5" speakers.

              The best way to get all the nuances from an amplifier is the traditional mic, in front of a cabinet or into a good isocab.
              Using a lodbox, you are playing the loadbox rather than playing the amplifier.
              Let's agree to disagree here because I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I ensure you that the differences would be way smaller if I had used one mic'ed up cab. The loadbox does a great job of emulating the way a speaker reacts with the amp and the IR's do a great job of emulating the different speakers and mics imho. There have been plenty of blind tests but perhaps I will also do one in the future, should be interesting!

              About there 'not being differences between the amps':

              I hear pretty big/significant differences myself but always when I do these types of videos some folks will say that they can't hear differences. I think this has to do with a couple of factors like listening gear, listening environment, experience, the fact that each amp segment has the same drums, bass and guitar, the same takes etc.
              It's basically impossible to please everyone because I've also done videos with the same IR for each amp but then people complain they all sound too similar.
              This video wasn't really meant as a comparison (although I do think that it does quite well in that regard) but rather as an amp showcase. Just to see how cool all those amps can sound with the same guitar and riffs.

              If people still can't hear a difference there is nothing wrong with that as we all listen to things in different ways but I would encourage those people to listen to the Dual Recto vs the JMP1 for example. I hear HUGE differences in the tones there. Also, listening with proper monitors or headphones is recommended (a must actually).

              Originally posted by NecroPolo View Post
              Great work. The DSL sounds ridiculously good, easily the best from the bunch IMO.



              No, they don't.
              The DSL is pretty cool but imho less suited for metal. I did trade my Dark Terror for a DSL20HR today though. Looking forward to including that in my videos!
              Owner and founder of Sonic Drive Studio & social media manager for OwnHammer.

              Facebook.com/sonicdrivestudio
              OwnHammer.com

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              • #22
                Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post

                Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I didn't think Helix was bad at all in fact I think it sounds very realistic. It's not for everyone though, and that is ok! Enough stuff out there to please anyone!
                You did pick a couple of great amps as your favorites (as far as I'm concerned) but I sold the Dark Terror today because I just couldn't get it to sound right.... A lot of guys really liked that one in various of my videos though. Different strokes...

                No problem ..& true....nothng is for everyone and I'm admittedly biased against modelers. I did go back and give it (Helix Native clip) another listen but it still was'nt my thing. I do concede that modlers can occasionally sound quite convincing in a mix, but 9 out of 10 times I find them lacking (over-sanitized & lacking balls/dynamics) compared to real amps. And when it cones to the way they feel when you're playing through them ..it's almost never there....at least so far as I've experienced.

                But yeah, I do see the plus's as well..versatility, ease of recording etc. which is why I'm kinda looking at some of them right now...
                "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                Youtube

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                  Originally posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
                  No problem ..& true....nothng is for everyone and I'm admittedly biased against modelers. I did go back and give it (Helix Native clip) another listen but it still was'nt my thing. I do concede that modlers can occasionally sound quite convincing in a mix, but 9 out of 10 times I find them lacking (over-sanitized & lacking balls/dynamics) compared to real amps. And when it cones to the way they feel when you're playing through them ..it's almost never there....at least so far as I've experienced.

                  But yeah, I do see the plus's as well..versatility, ease of recording etc. which is why I'm kinda looking at some of them right now...
                  If I may ask, which modelers are you looking at?
                  Owner and founder of Sonic Drive Studio & social media manager for OwnHammer.

                  Facebook.com/sonicdrivestudio
                  OwnHammer.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                    Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post
                    Let's agree to disagree here because I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I ensure you that the differences would be way smaller if I had used one mic'ed up cab. The loadbox does a great job of emulating the way a speaker reacts with the amp and the IR's do a great job of emulating the different speakers and mics imho. There have been plenty of blind tests but perhaps I will also do one in the future, should be interesting!

                    About there 'not being differences between the amps':

                    I hear pretty big/significant differences myself but always when I do these types of videos some folks will say that they can't hear differences. I think this has to do with a couple of factors like listening gear, listening environment, experience, the fact that each amp segment has the same drums, bass and guitar, the same takes etc.
                    It's basically impossible to please everyone because I've also done videos with the same IR for each amp but then people complain they all sound too similar.
                    This video wasn't really meant as a comparison (although I do think that it does quite well in that regard) but rather as an amp showcase. Just to see how cool all those amps can sound with the same guitar and riffs.

                    If people still can't hear a difference there is nothing wrong with that as we all listen to things in different ways but I would encourage those people to listen to the Dual Recto vs the JMP1 for example. I hear HUGE differences in the tones there. Also, listening with proper monitors or headphones is recommended (a must actually).
                    A Marantz PM4000 and a set of KEF Q1 speakers are enough?

                    I heard many time this trend with the loadboxes. I heard many amps (Suhr, Marshall, Bogner, ecc...) with the same loadbox: they sounded pretty similar!
                    I shared the video with a friend mine, here's what he said: "Too much compression with the differences at an all-time low. The Tiny Terrors sound all the same, but I played them live, and I know this is not true"

                    Probably the backingtrack flatten further the tone, probably I'd heard more differences with the raw guitar track, I don't know, I'll take more time to listen more carefully, but at first sigh I'd say they all sound the same. And this is not true, becase a PRS MT15, a Tiny Terror, an EVH 5150, an ENGL Fireball, a H&K, cannot sound the same. It's impossibile!
                    Well, it's a nice video, but if I want to discover all the differences and nuances between an Engl Fireball and an EVH 5150, I'll go with the demo played through a speaker cabinet for sure.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                      Originally posted by loziodavid View Post
                      Heard the test.
                      Conclusion: they all sound the same.
                      Sure the Orange's run together a bit and I'd say about half are very similar and it's clear that the TS prefers a certain vein of amp lineage -ie, Higher gain Fender Bassman circuit derivatives like Marshalls and Mesas etc , BUT there's lots of variation in there too.
                      “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                        Guitarjon, can you upload a new video with the raw guitar tracks only?
                        During the isolated parts of the video I hear a little bit better the nuances, but when drums and bass enter...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                          Originally posted by loziodavid View Post
                          Guitarjon, can you upload a new video with the raw guitar tracks only?
                          During the isolated parts of the video I hear a little bit better the nuances, but when drums and bass enter...
                          I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
                          Owner and founder of Sonic Drive Studio & social media manager for OwnHammer.

                          Facebook.com/sonicdrivestudio
                          OwnHammer.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                            Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post
                            I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
                            I do think you should put audible numbers on each example though -it would make blind tests easy -ultimately blind tests teach a viewer more about their ear, their biases and the truth more than anything.
                            Last edited by NegativeEase; 11-02-2019, 01:48 PM.
                            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                              Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post
                              If I may ask, which modelers are you looking at?
                              Nothing OTT...I'm mainly looking at stuff like the ZOOM G5n or Chinese modelers like the Mooer GE200 & Hotone Ampero. Like I said I'm not really a modeler fan and have no desire to use them for gigs or jamming..only recording which they do pretty well. As far as my main (Doom) band stuff goes I only use my amps for both recording & gigs.

                              The modelling thing is just for messing around on the side...doing my solo/instrumental stuff & the like ..so when it comes to modelers If I was able/willing to spend Axe Fx/Kemper cash the last thing's I'd be looking at were Axe Fx's or Kemper's (..be checking out Soldano's instead )

                              I've also been kinda tempted by the new Mooer Ge300 which costs more .but might be fun to mess around with if it sounds good enough given all the features (Tone capture/Synth/30 min looper etc..ie ..nothing I really need ). That's as high as I will go though (price-wise)
                              Last edited by Phantasmagoria; 11-02-2019, 01:39 PM.
                              "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                              I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                              Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                              If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                              Youtube

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

                                Originally posted by Guitarjon View Post
                                I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
                                4 hours to render a 15 minutes video?
                                You definitely need a new video card
                                On my workstation the render times are 1:1, 1 minute of rendering for 1 minute video, and I have only a cheap and outdated AMD HD6970.
                                Or, more simply, you have to enable CUDA or OpenGL in your video-editing software.

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