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Thread: 1 riff, 22 amps!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Honestly, of course we are all subject to the exaggerations and diminishing frequencies of the speakers when we listened to the video -before you even factor in preference and your ears and brain -so it's never going to be totally objective anyways. But I'd say I like aggro mids, balance, and distinct voicings -and am not big on more modern scooped tones or super saturated multi stage gain and compression from an amp -but I can appreciate it.

    but I have no doubt any of those amps could be voiced to be good and serviceable for most any rock application to most peoples ears. I don't view any of those amps as objectively "bad" -maybe voiced bad for my tastes -but not bad.

    We are living in times where even entry level 350 tube combos are pretty killer and 200 Solid state Combos are killer.

    It's not like the 80s where the gap between the garage band combo and the Professional stack are night and day apart in tone. They are closer than ever in many ways now IMO
    Also, there is a lot of range on most of the amps EQ's, anyone could probably tweak most of these amps to their liking. The reality is that for this video I just set them how I personally like them. I guess what I'm saying is, some of the amps that some people dislike could be great for those people if they had the opportunity to tweak the amps for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Cool demo & a great collection of amps!

    One's I thought sounded best in this video:

    Dark Terror, Dual Terror (might even like this one best.I actually played one at the store a couple of days ago & loved it), Ironball, Fireball & the PRS.. Both Marshalls were pretty good too...

    Worst..the Fractal & Helix native..typical flat/plastic modeler tone..wish I could get over it 'cuz I do want to get a modeler for recording but everytime I walk into a store to check one out I end up playing a bunch of amp's instead. (Incidently the only modeler I've tried that did'nt have that "modeler' sound/feel was the Yamaha TH100HD ..that thing sounds phenomenal & feels awesome as well..like a real tube amp. Really loved the tones!)

    Not really into 6505's/EVH's either..especially the typical flat/compressed tone everyone uses nowadays (though I did think the EVH's sounded better/clearer here especially the LBX) & this video did'nt change that opinion for me.

    But nicely done & a good interesting listen
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I didn't think Helix was bad at all in fact I think it sounds very realistic. It's not for everyone though, and that is ok! Enough stuff out there to please anyone!
    You did pick a couple of great amps as your favorites (as far as I'm concerned) but I sold the Dark Terror today because I just couldn't get it to sound right.... A lot of guys really liked that one in various of my videos though. Different strokes...

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    Heard the test.
    Conclusion: they all sound the same.


    My biggest concern is about the technique used for the test. Loadboxes, even the best reactive loadboxes of the market, flatten the tone. This is clear from many Youtube demos, this is what I noticed at a friend's house using a Fryette loadbox and different amps including Soldano, Dr.Z, Orange.
    In other word, if you take 10 different amps, put in through a loadbox, add an impulse response and record your signal, you obtain the same sound from all 10 amps.
    This is clear through this demo. And no, I didn't hear through my smartphone or laptop speaker. I heard through 2x 6.5" speakers.

    The best way to get all the nuances from an amplifier is the traditional mic, in front of a cabinet or into a good isocab.
    Using a lodbox, you are playing the loadbox rather than playing the amplifier.
    Let's agree to disagree here because I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I ensure you that the differences would be way smaller if I had used one mic'ed up cab. The loadbox does a great job of emulating the way a speaker reacts with the amp and the IR's do a great job of emulating the different speakers and mics imho. There have been plenty of blind tests but perhaps I will also do one in the future, should be interesting!

    About there 'not being differences between the amps':

    I hear pretty big/significant differences myself but always when I do these types of videos some folks will say that they can't hear differences. I think this has to do with a couple of factors like listening gear, listening environment, experience, the fact that each amp segment has the same drums, bass and guitar, the same takes etc.
    It's basically impossible to please everyone because I've also done videos with the same IR for each amp but then people complain they all sound too similar.
    This video wasn't really meant as a comparison (although I do think that it does quite well in that regard) but rather as an amp showcase. Just to see how cool all those amps can sound with the same guitar and riffs.

    If people still can't hear a difference there is nothing wrong with that as we all listen to things in different ways but I would encourage those people to listen to the Dual Recto vs the JMP1 for example. I hear HUGE differences in the tones there. Also, listening with proper monitors or headphones is recommended (a must actually).

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroPolo View Post
    Great work. The DSL sounds ridiculously good, easily the best from the bunch IMO.



    No, they don't.
    The DSL is pretty cool but imho less suited for metal. I did trade my Dark Terror for a DSL20HR today though. Looking forward to including that in my videos!
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  2. #22
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I didn't think Helix was bad at all in fact I think it sounds very realistic. It's not for everyone though, and that is ok! Enough stuff out there to please anyone!
    You did pick a couple of great amps as your favorites (as far as I'm concerned) but I sold the Dark Terror today because I just couldn't get it to sound right.... A lot of guys really liked that one in various of my videos though. Different strokes...

    No problem ..& true....nothng is for everyone and I'm admittedly biased against modelers. I did go back and give it (Helix Native clip) another listen but it still was'nt my thing. I do concede that modlers can occasionally sound quite convincing in a mix, but 9 out of 10 times I find them lacking (over-sanitized & lacking balls/dynamics) compared to real amps. And when it cones to the way they feel when you're playing through them ..it's almost never there....at least so far as I've experienced.

    But yeah, I do see the plus's as well..versatility, ease of recording etc. which is why I'm kinda looking at some of them right now...
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    No problem ..& true....nothng is for everyone and I'm admittedly biased against modelers. I did go back and give it (Helix Native clip) another listen but it still was'nt my thing. I do concede that modlers can occasionally sound quite convincing in a mix, but 9 out of 10 times I find them lacking (over-sanitized & lacking balls/dynamics) compared to real amps. And when it cones to the way they feel when you're playing through them ..it's almost never there....at least so far as I've experienced.

    But yeah, I do see the plus's as well..versatility, ease of recording etc. which is why I'm kinda looking at some of them right now...
    If I may ask, which modelers are you looking at?
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post
    Let's agree to disagree here because I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I ensure you that the differences would be way smaller if I had used one mic'ed up cab. The loadbox does a great job of emulating the way a speaker reacts with the amp and the IR's do a great job of emulating the different speakers and mics imho. There have been plenty of blind tests but perhaps I will also do one in the future, should be interesting!

    About there 'not being differences between the amps':

    I hear pretty big/significant differences myself but always when I do these types of videos some folks will say that they can't hear differences. I think this has to do with a couple of factors like listening gear, listening environment, experience, the fact that each amp segment has the same drums, bass and guitar, the same takes etc.
    It's basically impossible to please everyone because I've also done videos with the same IR for each amp but then people complain they all sound too similar.
    This video wasn't really meant as a comparison (although I do think that it does quite well in that regard) but rather as an amp showcase. Just to see how cool all those amps can sound with the same guitar and riffs.

    If people still can't hear a difference there is nothing wrong with that as we all listen to things in different ways but I would encourage those people to listen to the Dual Recto vs the JMP1 for example. I hear HUGE differences in the tones there. Also, listening with proper monitors or headphones is recommended (a must actually).
    A Marantz PM4000 and a set of KEF Q1 speakers are enough?

    I heard many time this trend with the loadboxes. I heard many amps (Suhr, Marshall, Bogner, ecc...) with the same loadbox: they sounded pretty similar!
    I shared the video with a friend mine, here's what he said: "Too much compression with the differences at an all-time low. The Tiny Terrors sound all the same, but I played them live, and I know this is not true"

    Probably the backingtrack flatten further the tone, probably I'd heard more differences with the raw guitar track, I don't know, I'll take more time to listen more carefully, but at first sigh I'd say they all sound the same. And this is not true, becase a PRS MT15, a Tiny Terror, an EVH 5150, an ENGL Fireball, a H&K, cannot sound the same. It's impossibile!
    Well, it's a nice video, but if I want to discover all the differences and nuances between an Engl Fireball and an EVH 5150, I'll go with the demo played through a speaker cabinet for sure.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    Heard the test.
    Conclusion: they all sound the same.
    Sure the Orange's run together a bit and I'd say about half are very similar and it's clear that the TS prefers a certain vein of amp lineage -ie, Higher gain Fender Bassman circuit derivatives like Marshalls and Mesas etc , BUT there's lots of variation in there too.
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  6. #26
    Junior Member loziodavid's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Guitarjon, can you upload a new video with the raw guitar tracks only?
    During the isolated parts of the video I hear a little bit better the nuances, but when drums and bass enter...

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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    Guitarjon, can you upload a new video with the raw guitar tracks only?
    During the isolated parts of the video I hear a little bit better the nuances, but when drums and bass enter...
    I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post
    I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
    I do think you should put audible numbers on each example though -it would make blind tests easy -ultimately blind tests teach a viewer more about their ear, their biases and the truth more than anything.
    Last edited by NegativeEase; 11-02-2019 at 01:48 PM.
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  9. #29
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post
    If I may ask, which modelers are you looking at?
    Nothing OTT...I'm mainly looking at stuff like the ZOOM G5n or Chinese modelers like the Mooer GE200 & Hotone Ampero. Like I said I'm not really a modeler fan and have no desire to use them for gigs or jamming..only recording which they do pretty well. As far as my main (Doom) band stuff goes I only use my amps for both recording & gigs.

    The modelling thing is just for messing around on the side...doing my solo/instrumental stuff & the like ..so when it comes to modelers If I was able/willing to spend Axe Fx/Kemper cash the last thing's I'd be looking at were Axe Fx's or Kemper's (..be checking out Soldano's instead )

    I've also been kinda tempted by the new Mooer Ge300 which costs more .but might be fun to mess around with if it sounds good enough given all the features (Tone capture/Synth/30 min looper etc..ie ..nothing I really need ). That's as high as I will go though (price-wise)
    Last edited by Phantasmagoria; 11-02-2019 at 01:39 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post
    I did think about including that in the video but it would have made the video way too long. It takes 15 minutes to bounce, 4 hours to render and 2.5 hours to upload so it's not something I can do quickly. I'm going to do many more amp videos in the future so I'll do my best to do more isolated bits as well... It's just hard to make everyone happy you know?
    4 hours to render a 15 minutes video?
    You definitely need a new video card
    On my workstation the render times are 1:1, 1 minute of rendering for 1 minute video, and I have only a cheap and outdated AMD HD6970.
    Or, more simply, you have to enable CUDA or OpenGL in your video-editing software.

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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    4 hours to render a 15 minutes video?
    You definitely need a new video card
    On my workstation the render times are 1:1, 1 minute of rendering for 1 minute video, and I have only a cheap and outdated AMD HD6970.
    Render times have increased since I started working in 4K. The video is almost half an hour long. I do have a pretty cheap video card though... I'm not an expert on the technical side.
    Last edited by Guitarjon; 11-02-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarjon View Post
    Render times have increased since I started working in 4K. The video is almost half an hour long. I do have a pretty cheap video card though... I'm not an expert on the technical side.
    bear in mind that probably 90% of your audience will consume your video in a resolution below 1080. and most well below that.
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    bear in mind that probably 90% of your audience will consume your video in a resolution below 1080. and most well below that.
    Of course! But I want to enjoy the look of my videos and be future proof!
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  14. #34
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    I hear you man....always put a whole lot of time & effort into mine to get them just right

    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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  15. #35
    Junior Member loziodavid's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    bear in mind that probably 90% of your audience will consume your video in a resolution below 1080. and most well below that.
    I agree, this is why I shot at 1080p.
    4K contents requires a 4K screen, that is not common on desktop and laptop PC.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    I hear you man....always put a whole lot of time & effort into mine to get them just right

    Haha! That was awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    I agree, this is why I shot at 1080p.
    4K contents requires a 4K screen, that is not common on desktop and laptop PC.
    I personally watch a lot of youtube from my couch on my 4K tv.
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by loziodavid View Post
    I agree, this is why I shot at 1080p.
    4K contents requires a 4K screen, that is not common on desktop and laptop PC.
    4K actually plays fine on 1080P monitors on PCs. And looks noticably better than native 1080P. Thankfully, there's fallbacks to 1080P and lower if you are on a metered plan. Or if the streaming server is choking on higher quality (buffering, buffering... buffer... ing??....)...

    I tend to pick 4K if given a choice, difference tends to be very noticable, though it depends on the source material. A lot of the problem is of course streaming companies mangling quality excessively. A better quality 1080P stream could greatly reduce the difference.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Regardless of the nitpicks about them sounding the same or not being isolated or whatever else, I think what you're doing is awesome and really helpful for anyone looking at purchasing one of these amps. We're definitely getting a lot more here than we're paying for, so thank you for your effort and generosity.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    Quote Originally Posted by misterwhizzy View Post
    Regardless of the nitpicks about them sounding the same or not being isolated or whatever else, I think what you're doing is awesome and really helpful for anyone looking at purchasing one of these amps. We're definitely getting a lot more here than we're paying for, so thank you for your effort and generosity.
    Thank you! I appreciate your comments! You wouldn't believe the hate I got haha. Can't please everyone.
    I think I'm going to make a quick video with some isolated parts to show some people that the amps do sound pretty different, because they do.
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: 1 riff, 22 amps!

    I got some comments from guys who thought that all my amps sound exactly the same. That was pretty surprising to me actually since I can hear pretty significant differences even though that wasn't really the goal of the video. I thought I would address all of that in a quick video (some isolated A/B sound examples are included). I would love to know (to the guys who gave those comments): do you still think they sound the same?

    Check it out:

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