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H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

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  • #16
    Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

    oh man, that's an idea i hadn't even considered, and it's not a bad one at all.

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    • #17
      Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

      I will sing your praises when they ask me about you, my friend. i will say "oh, shadowfire90? finest kind, indeed."

      But really I am grateful. I know this is rather standard currency here and that it happens every day but I appreciate the communal aspect and the sharing of knowledge involved, so I thank you both for the specific diagram and for being just a good ambassador to a new forum user.

      I am still about a week away from install so it'll be a minute but when I have her all wired up I'll update with a pic or two of the finished product so you can see what you helped me build.
      Last edited by Benway37; 12-13-2019, 03:12 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

        "The pickups hot lead goes to the switches common. Yet can be turned off."

        Sorry for double reply but in looking at this a little closer I have a question based on what I think I'm understanding here as it relates to the 3 way switch:
        I'm gathering from this that all three p/u will be on in middle position 2 and that going into position 1 or 3 will turn the single coil off. Is that an accurate summary or am i missing something?

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        • #19
          Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

          I'm glad we could help, anyone who shares the same amount of passion I don't mind writing pages about guitar gear.

          to answer your question
          in all 3 positions you'd be able to turn just the single coil on. We're achieving this because with every pot at 10 as in fully on in say position 1 where usually on a les paul it's just our bridge we have two independent volumes. So turning the bridge pickup volume completely off we're still getting the single coil. This can be done across the guitars switch positions.

          The other advantage fusing a coilsplit the humbuckers can assuming the magnetic and coil polarities are all compatible you'll have hum cancellation out of the single coil assuming it's a standard 2 wire single coil. If so I like this wiring at least on paper more and more.

          I haven't done decoupled wiring on my guitars as it's new on my radar and all my guitars are either pointy death metal machines or I usually just do a master volume. However on a few guitar forums I've heard great things about it and I figured if anyone was going to get use out of it, it's this project. Gretsch guitars this happens a lot on. Now the only down side to "decoupling" the volume controls is that the guitar will become darker quicker as you turn the guitar volume down. There are a few ways to combat this such as a treble bleed mod which there is a basic versions where it just uses a small valued capacitor to the kinman style which I've got a diagram provided for.

          For treble bleeds one of the best real world examples of the treble bleed is the stewmac video to see if it's worth it. The one they want you to buy on their website is 5$. However it's a simple RC circuit consisting of a
          130k 1/4w resistor - go metal film if you do it's a few cents more and usually the 30,50 or 100 of them will last a guitarist a life time it's only a few dollars. Metal film is very accurate. But carbon will do just fine too. Tayda2009 on ebay I recommend.

          a 1nf (0.001uf) tone capacitor - as long as it's not ceramic or MLCC.
          Your best bet is polyester. It's cheap, handles heat well and 1% vs 10% tolerance (accuracy) of a 1nf capacitor I don't think humans would be able to hear the subtleties in without some form of placebo effect. Any voltage will do as well.

          this is a diagram on the best treble bleed I've seen


          and a video showcasing one

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          • #20
            Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

            Ah thanks for clarification. I was assuming I was missing something. Yes, this diagram seems perfect for what I'm looking for and I think it will work great. I'll look into the treble mod. It's also funny that you referenced the Gretsch and then a vid with that specific guitar bc I am loosely stealing the vibe of that Electromatic series for this one, at least from an aesthetic standpoint. If your eyes are keen you probably already noticed the silver sparkle.

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            • #21
              Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

              made two fixes to the diagram. I included the string ground to the neck pickup volume and the coilsplits are now in the right orientation. I ended up documenting the CTS push pull pot and went back to this diagram and made the proper fixes. Either way hopefully this wiring does what you're after.

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              • #22
                Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

                Just saw this. Appreciate the update. Im still a few days away from my install so i'll just sub out this diagram. A million thanks again.

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                • #23
                  Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Hey how ya doing. Happy holidays. Just starting to wire this up and initially i'm having a bit of an issue. Testing the wiring with screwdriver and getting nothing on any channel, but diagram as drawn is backwards from layout in cavity, so it's very likely that my attempts to work the diagram from right to left didn't translate to my actual left to right cavity. I've uploaded the diagram with the way my cavity is laid out (and also what I'm assuming is each pickup).
                  I don't know if this discrepancy between cavity and diagram would make a difference in the connections but perhaps the flow would be different? The other little thing I have is that my single coil has three wires instead of two (red, white, and bare). Working from diagram, I used red for yellow, white for black, but I don't really know what to do with the bare. I know it's just a ground but I'm not sure where to mount it in this flow. Any chance I could bother you for one more update?

                  Just to be clear: my little green labeled diagram here is how my cavity is laid out and how I'd like the diagram to flow, but not how I wired up. When wiring, I followed diagram as is: all connections to bridge pots are still to bridge pots and vice versa, just the physical location of those 4 pots are flipped, so of course my wiring is much more back and forth and not in a directional flow like your diagram is. FWIW, when wiring, I did assume "top" humbucker in diagram was neck and bottom was bridge. Can you confirm that's right or wrong for me?
                  Last edited by Benway37; 12-25-2019, 11:47 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

                    I'll break this down into parts to make this easier to digest. I honestly don't remember much about this as I usually do a different diagram every day on here.

                    Alright lets start with the easy part bringing it to life
                    the red wires are hot lead to the switch. Notice how there is 2 wires going to the common (center) of the 3 way toggle and to the output jacks tip (hot lead). Make sure everything is soldered there and you shouldn't have a problem. However some things to check for are cold solder joints or if volume or tone pots are touching the walls of the guitar assuming there is either shielding paint or copper tape. One of the easiest ways to wire inside the guitar is with a small template about the size of a volume or tone pot.

                    question 2
                    with the orientation of the pots if it's a standard les paul 2 volume, 2 tone the approach of my diagram it is right when you flip it over. I even looked at a really old 1950s les paul diagram for reference Seymour Duncan drew out a long time ago when they were black and white just to reassure myself. Once the hot lead is resolved check and see if everything lines up. The Volumes and tones from the humbuckers and push pull pot for the pickup. If it all lines up rotate the switch around and it'll solve it. If not re-solder the red/white and black wires of the humbuckers and problem solved.

                    question 3
                    with three wire pickups I had a duncan designed in a few weeks back though I'm surprised no one chimed in. The red is your hot lead. White and bare are ground if memory serves me right. I usually try my best to avoid single coils as I usually dislike them. However this is an easy one to google from past forum posts. My experience is humbuckers more than anything.

                    how you'd approach that
                    the red wire will be going to where the yellow wire is
                    the white / bare - ground to the back of any volume or tone pot

                    when wiring up the guitar start with all the volume and tone controls at 10 when doing the tap test and you should be ok.

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                    • #25
                      Re: H S H wiring for 3 way toggle and 5 pots (or tell me why this is dumb)

                      Thanks again for reply. Hope it didn't come off like I had doubt in your diagram. I'm positive the issue is either in my attempt to flip it around or my execution. FWIW I'm not really a fan of single coils either unless we're just talking Jazzmasters or 'Tron style on a three way same as a HB setup. I've double checked my connections and feel pretty confident I've done things correctly. The reverse visualization thing is sort of challenging for the way my mind works but everything seems to be in line there and I think I'm ok there. I've also double checked and I'm not touching cavity shield anywhere. I think I'm close.

                      Where I'm at is that with 3way in bridge, I'm getting signal from bridge HB and from single coil. With 3way in middle I get nothing from any P/U and with 3way in neck I get nothing from either neck HB or single coil. I've already troubleshot the possibility that it's the neck pickup and I think the wiring is according to diagram so I'm thinking it's gotta be my connection to switch or the solder at the switch (or I guess it could be the switch itself, but it's brand new) that's the issue. Having said that, and assuming that both my wiring and my solder is fine, does anything else stand out to you as an obvious fix or red flag given that explanation?

                      If you're doing a diagram a day I hope you're getting residual forum income or bit dollars or some form of Duncan related renumeration. I know I'd definitely venmo you a fee for your time.
                      Last edited by Benway37; 12-27-2019, 11:02 AM.

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