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SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

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  • #16
    Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

    Try a 200k resistor in parallel with your volume pot and you'll drop the value of your pot down a bit.

    Given what you're describing, I'm not sure a no load pot is what you really want.
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

    Originally posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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    • #17
      Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

      Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
      Try a 200k resistor in parallel with your volume pot and you'll drop the value of your pot down a bit.

      Given what you're describing, I'm not sure a no load pot is what you really want.
      Well, it's my understanding that a no-load pot removes itself from the chain when at 10, or disengaged. I don't want to stack capacitance on itself by possibly using a regular tone pot and capacitor/resistor simultaneously by default. This way, if I feel I need more attenuation of those high frequencies I can choose to do so or not. I rarely ever go below 3 on a 250k tone knob anyways so I don't I'll be losing too much range. Unless if I'm thinking of this incorrectly?

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      • #18
        Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

        Originally posted by ZolloKaptain View Post
        I don't want to stack capacitance on itself by possibly using a regular tone pot and capacitor/resistor simultaneously by default. This way, if I feel I need more attenuation of those high frequencies I can choose to do so or not. I rarely ever go below 3 on a 250k tone knob anyways so I don't I'll be losing too much range. Unless if I'm thinking of this incorrectly?
        FWIW, any user of passive pickups stacks capacitance on itself, since a guitar cable is nothing else than a "tubular capacitor" (this expression coming from Bill Lawrence). :-)

        What GuitarSTV said relies on the same idea than my post 5 : a resistor in parallel with the volume pot would lower its resistance and would give a rounder "resonant peak".

        Now, it's true that a master no load tone would do the same thing once lowered @9/10 or under, for exactly the same reason (added parallel resistance).

        Regarding cables: don't be afraid to experiment also with LOWER stray capacitance (= low cap cables or shorter ones). It would shift the resonant peak ABOVE the frequency that you find annoying and might solve the problem as well, albeit for paradoxal reasons (a higher pitched resonant peak makes a PU brighter, of course, but it locates this brightness in a frequency range that many guitar loudspeakers struggle to reproduce, so it might ultimately contribute to "transparency" rather than to painful harshness... Not sure it will work with a high inductance PU like the SSL5 but it is worth a try) .

        Oh and... the question of trem setting and springs remains a parameter to consider IMHO. :-)
        Last edited by freefrog; 01-06-2020, 04:34 AM.
        Duncan user since the 80's...

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        • #19
          Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

          It's not unusual for strat pickups to sound harsh even if the bridge is overwound. Just adjust your load to suit whatever sound you want. Like stv said, add a resistor. You can use the no load tone if you want for a bigger range of tones. 250k works best for no load in my opinion. You get max bright on 10 and you notice a subtle darkening as soon as you hit 9. Use audio if you want the dark portion to take up most of the sweep or linear if you want the bright portion to take up most of the sweep.
          The things that you wanted
          I bought them for you

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          • #20
            Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

            Originally posted by freefrog View Post
            FWIW, any user of passive pickups stacks capacitance on itself, since a guitar cable is nothing else than a "tubular capacitor" (this expression coming from Bill Lawrence). :-)

            What GuitarSTV said relies on the same idea than my post 5 : a resistor in parallel with the volume pot would lower its resistance and would give a rounder "resonant peak".

            Now, it's true that a master no load tone would do the same thing once lowered @9/10 or under, for exactly the same reason (added parallel resistance).

            Regarding cables: don't be afraid to experiment also with LOWER stray capacitance (= low cap cables or shorter ones). It would shift the resonant peak ABOVE the frequency that you find annoying and might solve the problem as well, albeit for paradoxal reasons (a higher pitched resonant peak makes a PU brighter, of course, but it locates this brightness in a frequency range that many guitar loudspeakers struggle to reproduce, so it might ultimately contribute to "transparency" rather than to painful harshness... Not sure it will work with a high inductance PU like the SSL5 but it is worth a try) .

            Oh and... the question of trem setting and springs remains a parameter to consider IMHO. :-)
            That's a good point about stacking capacitance, it's just that I want to be in control of it as much as I can.

            I believe I might have used a 5 ft cable before with no noticeable difference but I'll try it again.

            Anyways, about the trem setting and springs, do you believe that I should replace the springs? Reduce the tension?
            I could also probably float my trem a little more as well because it is relatively flush right now.

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            • #21
              Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

              Originally posted by ZolloKaptain View Post
              That's a good point about stacking capacitance, it's just that I want to be in control of it as much as I can.
              Understood. :-)

              I believe I might have used a 5 ft cable before with no noticeable difference but I'll try it again.
              Its lenght doesn't suffice to define the capacitance of a cable: a cheapo 10ft "Yellow Cable" is almost 5 times more capacitive than a 10ft "Sommer LLX" (which is the guitar cable with the lowest capacitance available on the market, AFAIK... AND not an expensive one, FWIW).
              Personally, I've a bunch of wires exhibiting low to high capacitive values and I treat them as "natural EQ's" for passive pickups, along with inner capacitors, "capacitive load boxes", LRC filters, and other ways to fine tune the tone (including the resistors mentioned by our colleagues above).

              Anyways, about the trem setting and springs, do you believe that I should replace the springs? Reduce the tension?
              I could also probably float my trem a little more as well because it is relatively flush right now.
              I believe that it might be useful to try various springs with various tensions because I'm not able to predict the result: there's too much variables at play here. I just know that IME, any part conveying the resonance of the strings is susceptible to affect the resonance of a guitar, even plugged. YMMV. :-)
              Duncan user since the 80's...

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              • #22
                Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                I have run the SSL 5 a few times in the bridge on Strats both with SSL 1's and with AP II's and found the SSL 5 to be quite bright, abrupt in the attack and harsh compared to the humbuckers I normally use in the bridge on my guitars. I finally went to a Duncan Texas hot bridge in my last Strat and saw a huge difference in the way the pickup felt and sounded. A noticeable difference in feel with a much softer less abrupt attack and a fatter smoother tone. If you do this remember the Texas Hot is north leading so if you are using a RW/RP middle for a humbucking pos 2 and 4 it will need to go to the neck and the standard wind to the center.
                Guitars
                Kiesel DC 135, Carvin AE 185, DC 400, DC 127 KOA, DC 127 Quilt Purple, X220C, PRS Custom 24, Washburn USA MG 122 proto , MG 102, MG 120.
                Amps PRS Archon 50 head, MT 15, Mesa Subway Rocket, DC-5, Carvin X50B Hot Rod Mod head, Zinky 25watt Blue Velvet combo.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                  So, I have been thinking about some things and was wondering what all your opinions on the matter would be.

                  As I'm waiting for some pots that I ordered to arrive I'm starting to think that it might not be worth it to go down this rabbit hole of modding my guitar heavily. Of course there are many different approaches and none of them are right or wrong but people who I would say get almost exactly at the tone that I want, go through almost none of this. Bjorn riis from gilmourish.com has gone on to say he almost always keeps his tone knobs at 10 and volume at 10, he's never wired a capacitor or resistor in, he just changes his pickups.

                  So really I'm wondering here if I'm just going against the natural sound of the instrument and not really fixing an issue. In that case, it's likely I might never find a concrete answer.

                  I do not have an unlimited budget or amount of free time, in fact I have a rare amount of free time now that I was hoping to use to do a bunch of recordings.

                  I am still planning on making changes to this guitar and everything that you have all suggested has been extremely helpful and I don't mean to undervalue your help by saying these things.

                  Maybe I'm just looking far too ahead here.
                  Anyone have any thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                    Originally posted by ZolloKaptain View Post
                    So, I have been thinking about some things and was wondering what all your opinions on the matter would be.

                    As I'm waiting for some pots that I ordered to arrive I'm starting to think that it might not be worth it to go down this rabbit hole of modding my guitar heavily. Of course there are many different approaches and none of them are right or wrong but people who I would say get almost exactly at the tone that I want, go through almost none of this. Bjorn riis from gilmourish.com has gone on to say he almost always keeps his tone knobs at 10 and volume at 10, he's never wired a capacitor or resistor in, he just changes his pickups.

                    So really I'm wondering here if I'm just going against the natural sound of the instrument and not really fixing an issue. In that case, it's likely I might never find a concrete answer.

                    I do not have an unlimited budget or amount of free time, in fact I have a rare amount of free time now that I was hoping to use to do a bunch of recordings.

                    I am still planning on making changes to this guitar and everything that you have all suggested has been extremely helpful and I don't mean to undervalue your help by saying these things.

                    Maybe I'm just looking far too ahead here.
                    Anyone have any thoughts?


                    A crap guitar with a great player will blow away a great guitar with a crap player 100% of the time.
                    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                    Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                      So quick update:

                      I went through my first round of mods today. Kept it very simple for now, just rewired the ssl5 so that the black is hot and the white is ground. I tried lowering the pickups almost all the way into the pickguard, as far as they would go, in combination with a 30 ft cable. I still heard the issue, albeit it was slightly less apparent. After that, by running another long pedal through a true bypass pedal I effectively tested my rig with a 50 ft cable. Surprisingly, the bridge pickup was "almost" freed from the issue unfortunately it sounded pretty thin and lifeless, even when I tried fanangaling a bunch with my amp. With that same setup though, my neck pickup still sounded pretty ice-picky.

                      While I had my guitar plugged in I also tried strumming the tremolo springs to see if they were resonating and sending vibrations to the pickups, but it did not appear as though that was the case.

                      I also wanted to clarify a little about the ice-picky sound I'm hearing. Although it's probably not this, it kind of sounds like really high overtones. At times it can completely overtake the note and leave you with this ringing in your ears. Even though my bridge PUP was slightly cooperating today, fuzz was still a no-go in higher registers.

                      In terms of replacing the trem springs, are there any particular springs that might help or is it simply a toss up?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                        Originally posted by Ascension View Post
                        I have run the SSL 5 a few times in the bridge on Strats both with SSL 1's and with AP II's and found the SSL 5 to be quite bright, abrupt in the attack and harsh compared to the humbuckers I normally use in the bridge on my guitars. I finally went to a Duncan Texas hot bridge in my last Strat and saw a huge difference in the way the pickup felt and sounded. A noticeable difference in feel with a much softer less abrupt attack and a fatter smoother tone. If you do this remember the Texas Hot is north leading so if you are using a RW/RP middle for a humbucking pos 2 and 4 it will need to go to the neck and the standard wind to the center.
                        In my strat I would also describe the attack as very abrupt and harsh especially if you want to dig in a little. I want to try CS69s in my guitar because they are less output, and frankly I think almost anything would sound better than the stock pickups.

                        What kind of Strats have you tested the SSL5 in before?

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                        • #27
                          Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                          Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                          A crap guitar with a great player will blow away a great guitar with a crap player 100% of the time.
                          Theoretically I agree with you in all senses, but, considering that my application is mainly recording, a "crap" tone essentially translates as a "crap" performance.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                            Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                            A crap guitar with a great player will blow away a great guitar with a crap player 100% of the time.
                            False dichotomy. An average player can improve their music by improving their equipment.
                            The things that you wanted
                            I bought them for you

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                              Originally posted by ZolloKaptain View Post
                              So quick update:

                              I went through my first round of mods today. Kept it very simple for now, just rewired the ssl5 so that the black is hot and the white is ground. I tried lowering the pickups almost all the way into the pickguard, as far as they would go, in combination with a 30 ft cable. I still heard the issue, albeit it was slightly less apparent. After that, by running another long pedal through a true bypass pedal I effectively tested my rig with a 50 ft cable. Surprisingly, the bridge pickup was "almost" freed from the issue unfortunately it sounded pretty thin and lifeless, even when I tried fanangaling a bunch with my amp. With that same setup though, my neck pickup still sounded pretty ice-picky.
                              Thx for the update.

                              FWIW, higher capacitance might sound "dull" because it cuts sparkle frequencies but it shouldn't make a Strat "thin" sounding. If it was the case, thin sounds would have been produced by all those who used long and/or coily cables back in the days : Hendrix or SRV come here to my mind, among others (and I have already mounted several times in Strats a 2.2nF cap, equivalent to 45ft of added cable: far to make the tone "thin", it fattened the mids).
                              So, something in your chain might have caused some bad bleeding of the signal or has acted like a series resistor.

                              While I had my guitar plugged in I also tried strumming the tremolo springs to see if they were resonating and sending vibrations to the pickups, but it did not appear as though that was the case.
                              [...]
                              In terms of replacing the trem springs, are there any particular springs that might help or is it simply a toss up?
                              Some Strat users like these: http://www.rawvintage.com/eng/item_springs.php

                              But before to order, personally, I'd go to my guitar shop and I'd swap a few trem springs coming from their parts bin, while experimenting with 3, 4 or 5 springs at different angles and tensions.

                              I'm not sure that springs cause your problem, though, if we consider the last bit of your post:

                              I also wanted to clarify a little about the ice-picky sound I'm hearing. Although it's probably not this, it kind of sounds like really high overtones. At times it can completely overtake the note and leave you with this ringing in your ears. Even though my bridge PUP was slightly cooperating today, fuzz was still a no-go in higher registers.
                              I start to wonder if your high strings are not buzzing on the last upper frets because of the action setting and/or because of a poor fretting job...

                              A recorded sample might be useful here (with a list of the cables/FX/ amp(s)/loudspeaker(s) used), because in my blind attempt of online help, I risk to keep talking way too much without being helpful. :-))
                              Last edited by freefrog; 01-08-2020, 01:31 AM.
                              Duncan user since the 80's...

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                              • #30
                                Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                                Originally posted by ZolloKaptain View Post
                                In my strat I would also describe the attack as very abrupt and harsh especially if you want to dig in a little. I want to try CS69s in my guitar because they are less output, and frankly I think almost anything would sound better than the stock pickups.

                                What kind of Strats have you tested the SSL5 in before?
                                My 94 Washburn USA Silverado came stock with SSL-5's and I have had several highly modded Mex Strats over the years that I have rolled SSL-5's in the bridge on. That Silverado I have kicked myself for selling many times as think Suhr and Anderson quality dead mint guitar with a one piece real swamp ash body and one piece quarter sawn maple neck/ fingerboard. Not only was it stunning to look at but was a real tone machine. Doing what I do can't really use real single coils so like an idiot sold it.
                                Last edited by Ascension; 01-08-2020, 04:58 AM.
                                Guitars
                                Kiesel DC 135, Carvin AE 185, DC 400, DC 127 KOA, DC 127 Quilt Purple, X220C, PRS Custom 24, Washburn USA MG 122 proto , MG 102, MG 120.
                                Amps PRS Archon 50 head, MT 15, Mesa Subway Rocket, DC-5, Carvin X50B Hot Rod Mod head, Zinky 25watt Blue Velvet combo.

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