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SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

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  • #31
    Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

    I didn’t read through this whole thread so this may have been suggested already.

    I would verify that you have 250K pots installed.
    Did you buy this used? Maybe the previous owner had swapped pots and put 500K in?

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    • #32
      Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

      First, is it now in phase with the middle?

      Also, is it possible to record a clip going through all the pickups in the guitar?
      Administrator of the SDUGF

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      • #33
        Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

        Originally posted by freefrog View Post
        Thx for the update.

        FWIW, higher capacitance might sound "dull" because it cuts sparkle frequencies but it shouldn't make a Strat "thin" sounding. If it was the case, thin sounds would have been produced by all those who used long and/or coily cables back in the days : Hendrix or SRV come here to my mind, among others (and I have already mounted several times in Strats a 2.2nF cap, equivalent to 45ft of added cable: far to make the tone "thin", it fattened the mids).
        So, something in your chain might have caused some bad bleeding of the signal or has acted like a series resistor.



        Some Strat users like these: http://www.rawvintage.com/eng/item_springs.php

        But before to order, personally, I'd go to my guitar shop and I'd swap a few trem springs coming from their parts bin, while experimenting with 3, 4 or 5 springs at different angles and tensions.

        I'm not sure that springs cause your problem, though, if we consider the last bit of your post:



        I start to wonder if your high strings are not buzzing on the last upper frets because of the action setting and/or because of a poor fretting job...

        A recorded sample might be useful here (with a list of the cables/FX/ amp(s)/loudspeaker(s) used), because in my blind attempt of online help, I risk to keep talking way too much without being helpful. :-))
        I recently had fretwork done on my guitar because I suspected that might be the culprit. I would post a recorded clip but for whatever reason this site always tells me that it failed to upload. I think I might have to create a private YouTube video and just provide the link I'd I want to do that. Anyways I'll be sure to find a way to get a recording on here.

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        • #34
          Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

          Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
          I didn’t read through this whole thread so this may have been suggested already.

          I would verify that you have 250K pots installed.
          Did you buy this used? Maybe the previous owner had swapped pots and put 500K in?
          Yup, the volume pot is about 250k.

          I bought the guitar brand new.

          I'm working on a way to upload a recorded clip as it keeps failing for some reason, which is the main reason why I haven't posted a recording up to this point.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

            Originally posted by Ascension View Post
            My 94 Washburn USA Silverado came stock with SSL-5's and I have had several highly modded Mex Strats over the years that I have rolled SSL-5's in the bridge on. That Silverado I have kicked myself for selling many times as think Suhr and Anderson quality dead mint guitar with a one piece real swamp ash body and one piece quarter sawn maple neck/ fingerboard. Not only was it stunning to look at but was a real tone machine. Doing what I do can't really use real single coils so like an idiot sold it.
            It's interesting because in my never ending search for a solution to this problem, I have been scouring many different forum posts of similar circumstances, and a pretty common variable seems to be a Mexican Strat. I'm not sure what it might be that makes Mex Strats seem to push the pickups more but hopefully that's something that's not impossible to figure out.

            Shame about that Silverado, sounded like a killer guitar.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

              Originally posted by Mincer View Post
              First, is it now in phase with the middle?

              Also, is it possible to record a clip going through all the pickups in the guitar?
              Yes, per Seymour Duncan's wiring suggestion on the other forum, the pup is currently in phase.

              I will provide a recorded clip as soon as I find a reliable way to do so on this forum.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                You can use Soundcloud, or even YouTube.
                Administrator of the SDUGF

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                • #38
                  Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                  compared to a cs69 in the same position the ssl5 should be louder, thicker in the mids and have a less harsh top end. same would be true comparing the ssl5 to a ssl1 or some other vintage type strat pup. 3khz isnt overly high but anything in that range that has a big peak can sound harsh.

                  you say that the whole guitar has some of this high end issue. if its still the whole guitar then id look at swapping the pots to a lower value to lower the resonant peak, if its just the bridge pup, then id add a tone control to it and see what you think.

                  glad its in phase with the middle pup now, that a start.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                    Alright, so I did some quick recording. The first version is one where I demoed the pickups at Fender suggested heights, so, typically what you would see them at, without having an issue. The second version I recorded was with the pickups sunk done as far as they can go. The recordings were done with the Treble on my amp set about 2, the Tone at about 3.5, Mid at 4 and Bass at about 4. The licks I recorded were really just something random. I changed it a little bit in because I was noticing I was a getting a little lucky at times with the issue not reproducing. I also recorded this with just a 15ft GLS Audio instrument cable plugged directly into my amp which is a Laney Cub head and cab.

                    I started the recordings with the bridge pup and then slowly made my way to the neck pup. I recommend listening at generally louder volumes because of the nature of higher sounds. Also, if you want a quick guide on where you can hear it most prominently, you could check out the neck pup on the lower pickup heights, which is the last recording in the second version.

                    It's also strange how the recordings here make me sound almost as if I was really digging in hard when playing, but I was really only playing with moderate force and, at times, pretty softly.

                    No clipping occurred in these recordings whatsoever.

                    Anyways here are the links, (let me know if they work)

                    First Version:
                    This is done with a typical cable length, about 15 ft. The treble setting is at about 2 on the amp, the bass is at 4 and mid at 4. The tone setting is at about 3.


                    This is done with a typical cable length, about 15 ft. The treble setting is at about 2 on the amp, the bass is at 4 and mid at 4. The tone setting is at about 3.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                      Originally posted by jeremy View Post
                      compared to a cs69 in the same position the ssl5 should be louder, thicker in the mids and have a less harsh top end. same would be true comparing the ssl5 to a ssl1 or some other vintage type strat pup. 3khz isnt overly high but anything in that range that has a big peak can sound harsh.

                      you say that the whole guitar has some of this high end issue. if its still the whole guitar then id look at swapping the pots to a lower value to lower the resonant peak, if its just the bridge pup, then id add a tone control to it and see what you think.

                      glad its in phase with the middle pup now, that a start.
                      All my pickups experience this issue. You recommend swapping the pots to something lower than 250k?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                        I listened, and those are some odd EQ settings:
                        This is done with a typical cable length, about 15 ft. The treble setting is at about 2 on the amp, the bass is at 4 and mid at 4. The tone setting is at about 3.

                        Not that what you are experiencing isn't true, I can hear the extra high end, but that might be that pickup in the bridge position hitting the amp harder. Since the EQ is rather unique, I am not sure what it should sound like with those EQ settings.
                        Administrator of the SDUGF

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                          Originally posted by Mincer View Post
                          I listened, and those are some odd EQ settings:
                          This is done with a typical cable length, about 15 ft. The treble setting is at about 2 on the amp, the bass is at 4 and mid at 4. The tone setting is at about 3.

                          Not that what you are experiencing isn't true, I can hear the extra high end, but that might be that pickup in the bridge position hitting the amp harder. Since the EQ is rather unique, I am not sure what it should sound like with those EQ settings.
                          Well, I have the treble and tone so low to disprove the idea that my amp settings are the source of the issue.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                            Originally posted by Clint 55
                            It sounded normal to me. I think 3 pages is enough to dispel with the idea that something is broken. If you want a warmer sound then adjust your rig for a warmer sound. Try different values of resisters to see if you like the result. I have a 100k volume and 250k no load tone in my jazz strat and I love it. Adjust your amp eq. Get an eq pedal. Go noiseless. Noiseless single coils are rounder and less harsh. Or maybe try a different style of pickup altogether. But if you want to stick with your true single coils, you have plenty of options.
                            Interesting. I mean even I didn't really notice this at first. But now that I have been listening to my tone on headphones I can't unhear it. It's what prompted me to sit in front of my amp to try to hear the sound right at the source. It's interesting, if your not at the same level of your amp or as close enough as a mic would be the tone can sound drastically different. I thought my tone was pretty great when I was just hearing my amp from afar with the sound bouncing off the walls and being slightly colored, and perhaps discolored, by the room.

                            I would like to keep my setup in terms of pickups if at all possible mainly because there is a pretty specific tone that I'm going for. To try to replicate that tone with a different setup would be a lot of rambling around.

                            It's also not necessarily that I want a "warmer" sound either. I think my sound is pretty great at times it just has that annoying treble tacked on.

                            I think I'll probably try a 100k volume pot, thanks for the suggestion.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                              Alright, so I did some quick recording. The first version is one where I demoed the pickups at Fender suggested heights, so, typically what you would see them at, without having an issue. The second version I recorded was with the pickups sunk done as far as they can go. The recordings were done with the Treble on my amp set about 2, the Tone at about 3.5, Mid at 4 and Bass at about 4. The licks I recorded were really just something random. I changed it a little bit in because I was noticing I was a getting a little lucky at times with the issue not reproducing. I also recorded this with just a 15ft GLS Audio instrument cable plugged directly into my amp which is a Laney Cub head and cab.
                              OK.
                              From my crappy laptop loudspeakers and while it's 7:30AM here, I hear what I'd expect from the unprocessed recording of such a small amp: something slightly gritty. I get a pretty similar sound when I put an EL84 in my cathode biased 5W head.

                              The various pickups positions in the two samples have nothing special to me. Reminds me the tone heard a while back from a maple neck MIM Strat hosting similar pickups (I had fitted it with SSL5, SSL1, APS1). There's a prominent harmonic peak around 2237hz or something like that. It obviously translates the spectrum of the miked loudspeaker.

                              Here are the related spectra, captured through Audacity:

                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	5817954

                              Click image for larger version

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                              I started the recordings with the bridge pup and then slowly made my way to the neck pup. I recommend listening at generally louder volumes because of the nature of higher sounds. Also, if you want a quick guide on where you can hear it most prominently, you could check out the neck pup on the lower pickup heights, which is the last recording in the second version.

                              It's also strange how the recordings here make me sound almost as if I was really digging in hard when playing, but I was really only playing with moderate force and, at times, pretty softly.

                              No clipping occurred in these recordings whatsoever.
                              In my hasty Audacity recording, THERE IS clipping. See the highlighted section in this screenshot:

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	ZolloKaptainClipping.jpg
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                              Now, here is the related harmonic spectrum, with the harmonic peaks that you find annoying:

                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	5817957

                              At first glance, they are not exact multiple of the highest fundamental frequencies: they appear to be odd harmonics. And even if they were simple overtones of the fundamental notes, such harmonic peaks shouldn't appear with bent strings vibrating freely.

                              Unless a few hours of decantation change my mind, I stand on my last idea, therefore: for me, these annoying frequencies are due to the high strings buzzing on something. Not necessarily the highest frets: I've already cured similar problems due to bridges and saddles.

                              The problem is just enhanced by the amp and recording.

                              EDIT in order to share an afterthought: compressors are our friends. It's not without reasons that David has used MXR then Boss compressors (two weapons that I've in my own arsenal and that I often use, especially for clean tones à la Gilmour)...
                              Last edited by freefrog; 01-09-2020, 01:58 AM.
                              Duncan user since the 80's...

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                              • #45
                                Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

                                Originally posted by freefrog View Post
                                OK.
                                From my crappy laptop loudspeakers and while it's 7:30AM here, I hear what I'd expect from the unprocessed recording of such a small amp: something slightly gritty. I get a pretty similar sound when I put an EL84 in my cathode biased 5W head.

                                The various pickups positions in the two samples have nothing special to me. Reminds me the tone heard a while back from a maple neck MIM Strat hosting asimilar pickups (I had fitted it with SSL5, SSL1, APS1). There's a prominent harmonic peak around 2237hz or something like that. It obviously translates the spectrum of the miked loudspeaker.

                                Here are the related spectra, captured through Audacity:

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]102740[/ATTACH]

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]102741[/ATTACH]



                                In my hasty Audacity recording, THERE IS clipping. See the highlighted section in this screenshot:

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]102742[/ATTACH]

                                Now, here is the related harmonic spectrum, with the harmonic peaks that you find annoying:

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]102744[/ATTACH]

                                At first glance, they are not exact multiple of the highest fundamental frequencies: they appear to be odd harmonics.

                                Unless a few hours of decantation change my mind, I stand on my last idea, therefore: these annoying frequencies are due to the high strings buzzing on something. Not necessarily the highest frets: I've already cured similar problems due to bridges and saddles.

                                The problem is just enhanced by the amp and recording.
                                Wow, this is really awesome information! I'll be honest, it being about 3am here and me not getting much sleep over researching this issue, I had to re-read your post a few times. However, one thing I'm a little confused about is the graphic that you said exhibited clipping. You said "audacity recording", is that graph representing a recording you did yourself? I'm just a little confused by the wording. Also, to clarify, the last graph is representing data from my recordings, correct? If so this is very interesting information.

                                If it means anything I also have issues with strumming intervals high up the fretboard. Say strumming a third around high E 15th fret, even though the guitar will have great intonation on those two notes, it will sound completely off, as though there was an odd harmonic muddying up the sound. What you said reminded of that so I thought it might be helpful to share.

                                Also, I believe it's likely that the string isn't really buzzing from contact with the frets because the issue is still prevalent when using a slide, or not depressing the strings when playing. Therefore, a reaction with the bridge is an interesting conclusion that seems to fit.

                                Also I hope you know that I have spared your ears
                                I accidentally left the treble at about 6 when I was playing around with some different settings the other day. I raised the pickups to normal height for the prep for the first test recording and I played a note on the 15th fret of high E and it was so ear-piercing I actually let out a yell.
                                That is precisely why I have my treble setting at 2 right now for my amp, which is still lower than I usually like having it.

                                Anyways, let me reiterate, this is awesome research that you have done! This his given me a lot to think about.

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