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2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

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  • #16
    Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

    Originally posted by chillytouch View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys!

    So this is the issue I am running into now. I did all my effects in the loop and then my last pedal is the chorus (which I just leave off) but I have the outputs of the pedal split to the two different amps (so basically what you mentioned above). The problem I'm having is that the el34 amp with the 1x12 connected is way louder than the 6l6 2x12 amp combo. So all I really hear is the 1x12. If I adjust the volume on the 6l6 amp (which is the master), the volume for both amps raises, so I can't get the volume between the 2 even .

    I ordered a splitter to try (i'll put my guitar directly into the splitter). If I use a splitter, and still want to to use reverb/delay, can I go from

    Splitter --> 2 different amps --> both amps effects send into the A/B inputs of delay pedal --> A/B inputs of reverb pedal --> out to their respective amp effects returns.

    Would that work?

    You really need figure out how each power amp section works, specially the one from the slave amp. In some amps the master volume control is before the FX Send, that means whatever hits the FX return (the power amp) is being amplified at full power (like a Fender Hot Rode Deluxe), then the master volume knob will only control the signal of the own amp but may not control the volume of the signal coming from the master amp.

    Turn down the master volume of your slave amp (el34 amphead which goes to a 1x12 cab if I understood correctly? ) up and down while here is nothing plugged in the FX return of the master amp, if the volume never changed on the slave amp then you need an extra gadget to control the volume of the signal coming into the slave amp.

    You can still use the a single preamp from your favorite amp in a stereo rig, Andy Timons takes the FX send from his Amp #1 into stereo pedal board then sends one cable to the Amp #1 FX return and a second cable to Amp #2 FX return. He does however use two identical heads and cabs so both power amps and speakers can be balanced in volume.
    Who took my guitar?

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    • #17
      Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

      Originally posted by IMENATOR View Post
      You really need figure out how each power amp section works, specially the one from the slave amp. In some amps the master volume control is before the FX Send, that means whatever hits the FX return (the power amp) is being amplified at full power (like a Fender Hot Rode Deluxe), then the master volume knob will only control the signal of the own amp but may not control the volume of the signal coming from the master amp.

      Turn down the master volume of your slave amp (el34 amphead which goes to a 1x12 cab if I understood correctly? ) up and down while here is nothing plugged in the FX return of the master amp, if the volume never changed on the slave amp then you need an extra gadget to control the volume of the signal coming into the slave amp.

      You can still use the a single preamp from your favorite amp in a stereo rig, Andy Timons takes the FX send from his Amp #1 into stereo pedal board then sends one cable to the Amp #1 FX return and a second cable to Amp #2 FX return. He does however use two identical heads and cabs so both power amps and speakers can be balanced in volume.
      They're both EVH 50w heads up yeah they are different amps (6l6/el34).

      I have a little black box (that's the name, it's a mini attenuator that is meant to go in the FX loop).

      Do you think I could just put that before the EL34 amp fx return? Will having an extra pedal on one side make some type of lag effect between the 2 outputs? Like, chorus pedal output 1 to the 6l6 master just goes straight back into FX return but output 2 goes through a passive attenuator to slave amp FX return. Not sure if that presents a lag or something. I can give it a shot though. btw I love andy timons lol.

      Oh and also to answer your one question. Adjusting the master volume on the EL34 (slave) amp changes nothing. Still stays the same.

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      • #18
        Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

        Originally posted by chillytouch View Post
        Do you think I could just put that before the EL34 amp fx return? Will having an extra pedal on one side make some type of lag effect between the 2 outputs? Like, chorus pedal output 1 to the 6l6 master just goes straight back into FX return but output 2 goes through a passive attenuator to slave amp FX return. Not sure if that presents a lag or something. I can give it a shot though. btw I love andy timons lol.

        Oh and also to answer your one question. Adjusting the master volume on the EL34 (slave) amp changes nothing. Still stays the same.
        The black box will solve your volume difference without introducing noticeable lag. It might change the tone, though. It would be a feat of engineering if the black box can equally lower all frequencies at an equal measure for any line-level signal. Since you have all those effects pedals with stereo in/out I recommend using those in the effects loops of both amps, ditching the black box, and using an active ABY splitter in front of the amps. You will definitely want phase correction and a grounding option as others have mentioned. Fulltone and Radial make great ones.

        Side note.. the more I think about it the more useless I find the JHS black box to be. It can be used for random applications to reduce pre-amp volume like the one you asked about, but for real attenuation you have to go between the power amp and speaker. Even then you have to shell out big bucks for a reactive load attenuator if you want to get close to lowering the volume without affecting that pushed amp tone and response

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        • #19
          Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

          Originally posted by rainsong86 View Post
          The black box will solve your volume difference without introducing noticeable lag. It might change the tone, though. It would be a feat of engineering if the black box can equally lower all frequencies at an equal measure for any line-level signal. Since you have all those effects pedals with stereo in/out I recommend using those in the effects loops of both amps, ditching the black box, and using an active ABY splitter in front of the amps. You will definitely want phase correction and a grounding option as others have mentioned. Fulltone and Radial make great ones.

          Side note.. the more I think about it the more useless I find the JHS black box to be. It can be used for random applications to reduce pre-amp volume like the one you asked about, but for real attenuation you have to go between the power amp and speaker. Even then you have to shell out big bucks for a reactive load attenuator if you want to get close to lowering the volume without affecting that pushed amp tone and response

          yeah... I tried looking at a decent attenuator but the more I read reviews I couldn't find one sub 800.00 that had really consistent reviews, so I gave up. I bought a messa cabclone but quickly cancelled my order when I saw some pretty concerning youtube reviews.

          I ended up getting the EVH 5150 2x12 combo amp with the built in attenuator. Full disclosure though, it still is ridiculously loud even at the 1watt setting. Cannot turn volume above 2 lol. But I don't mind because I wanted the 6l6 version of the amp anyway. I like the El34 version and 6l6 each in their own way, maybe slightly leaning towards the EL34. That's why I'm excited to try to get them in stereo

          I took your advice and I got the radial ABY splitter.

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          • #20
            Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

            Radial twin city or bigshot?

            Also keep in mind that the difference in 6L6 or el34 is negligible compared to the difference in using 1x12 as opposed to 2x12.

            I also wonder if the attenuator in your 5150 is an actual power soak or just a good post-phase inverter master volume.

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            • #21
              Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

              Originally posted by rainsong86 View Post
              Radial twin city or bigshot?

              Also keep in mind that the difference in 6L6 or el34 is negligible compared to the difference in using 1x12 as opposed to 2x12.

              I also wonder if the attenuator in your 5150 is an actual power soak or just a good post-phase inverter master volume.
              Radial Bigshot AB/Y Splitter. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get what I want out of it but I figure it could be worth a shot. I'll post a small video once I get it working to see what people think. I am going to try leaving my board the way it is with reverb/delay and have the 6l6 amp be wet and the el34 dry. And if I don't like it I'll run both cables through the pedals and see what it sounds like both wet. I mainly practice lead stuff to backing tracks so I am going to have them both on the red or blue channels with the gain dialed back. From what I've read people really admire the blue channel on the 6l6 and the red on the el34, so I may try to get that blend going.

              And yeah I'm not sure the manual doesn't say. The dial says "Power Level" and it's supposed to be "post power tube" attenuation. I think it works ok it's just I figured if I dialed it back to 1watt I'd be able to get the volume up to noon but in reality it's more like I can go to between 2-3 instead of between 0-1. I tried my friends hughes and kettner tubemeister at my place once. It had a 1-watt setting and I was able to get that volume to noon. So I figured it'd be more like that.
              Last edited by chillytouch; 01-24-2020, 11:09 AM.

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              • #22
                Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                I ended up getting the EVH 5150 2x12 combo amp with the built in attenuator. Full disclosure though, it still is ridiculously loud even at the 1watt setting. Cannot turn volume above 2 lol. But I don't mind because I wanted the 6l6 version of the amp anyway. I like the El34 version and 6l6 each in their own way, maybe slightly leaning towards the EL34. That's why I'm excited to try to get them in stereo
                BTW, that's what Egnaters brilliant "tube mix" function does. Amp has two sets of power tubes, which you can blend freely by adjust single pot in amp. I have the Rebel version with 2x2 6V6/EL84 tubes, I prefer to keep blend around halfway to 40/60 on the 6V6 side.

                They also have bigger 2x2 EL34/6L6 version. Have to try to that out if I ever see one on the wild.
                Last edited by Jacew; 01-24-2020, 11:50 AM.
                "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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                • #23
                  Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                  Originally posted by chillytouch View Post
                  Radial Bigshot AB/Y Splitter.
                  %100
                  “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                  • #24
                    Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                    Just remember, without a time based effect or specific volume weighting between both, two speaker sources (the combo and the 1x12) is really not a good true "stereo" effect. it's more dual mono -which is cool for texturing and thickening your tone but for true stereo image effect, get a time based effect on one or both sources and least spread them out wide which creates the effect of source placement and the manipulation to that spot with effects between the two cabs spacing.

                    also, does using your preamp out jack kill the feed to the combo amp and speaker or not -many amps are an all or nothing affair if you use pre out.? may want to check that before you plan your stereo attack!
                    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                    • #25
                      Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                      With what you have, you can get a stereo sound now. Use the stereo chorus in front at the end of whatever other pedals you use out front and send each out from the chorus to both amps. You don't want to go to the FX return as that is at the end of the preamp and you'll lose all the tone shaping abilities. Sending the chorus outs to both FX returns would need the chorus to have 2 inputs as well (from the amps FX send) so you are truly splitting the signal through the FX loops. Since the chorus most likely has one input, you want it out front of the amps and the outs to the amps' input.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                        Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                        Just remember, without a time based effect or specific volume weighting between both, two speaker sources (the combo and the 1x12) is really not a good true "stereo" effect. it's more dual mono -which is cool for texturing and thickening your tone but for true stereo image effect, get a time based effect on one or both sources and least spread them out wide which creates the effect of source placement and the manipulation to that spot with effects between the two cabs spacing.

                        also, does using your preamp out jack kill the feed to the combo amp and speaker or not -many amps are an all or nothing affair if you use pre out.? may want to check that before you plan your stereo attack!
                        What effect would you recommend? I have an evh chorus and a eventide pitchfactor. Those are my only time based effects unless delay/reverb counts as one. I dont use the chorus or pitchfactor much because whenever I did use them in mono, it made the tone sound chimey/lighter. I want thick screaming lead tone from all angles.

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                        • #27
                          Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                          Originally posted by ErikH View Post
                          With what you have, you can get a stereo sound now. Use the stereo chorus in front at the end of whatever other pedals you use out front and send each out from the chorus to both amps. You don't want to go to the FX return as that is at the end of the preamp and you'll lose all the tone shaping abilities. Sending the chorus outs to both FX returns would need the chorus to have 2 inputs as well (from the amps FX send) so you are truly splitting the signal through the FX loops. Since the chorus most likely has one input, you want it out front of the amps and the outs to the amps' input.
                          I didnt think to try this. I forgot that my chorus pedal is a true bypass and I could have put it at the front and just left it off... that would have fixed my volume problem! Well I'm waiting on the replacement for my combo amp anyway (it was damaged) I may give this a shot if the bigshot doesnt work out.

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                          • #28
                            Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

                            Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                            Just remember, without a time based effect or specific volume weighting between both, two speaker sources (the combo and the 1x12) is really not a good true "stereo" effect. it's more dual mono -which is cool for texturing and thickening your tone but for true stereo image effect, get a time based effect on one or both sources and least spread them out wide which creates the effect of source placement and the manipulation to that spot with effects between the two cabs spacing.

                            also, does using your preamp out jack kill the feed to the combo amp and speaker or not -many amps are an all or nothing affair if you use pre out.? may want to check that before you plan your stereo attack!
                            Also, if it works out and I really do like the sound. If I wanted to record a cover of a song, would my best option be put 1 mic in front of each speaker cabinet and then hook them up to channels 1/2 on my usb interface?

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