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Thread: Pushing the boundaries...

  1. #1
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Pushing the boundaries...

    So, for the new wire...

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    The moment is having gone too far.

    50AWG I have worked with - that's the top wire. The lower is 64AWG - barely visible and almost certainly a step too far..

    We shall see...
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  2. #2
    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    This should be interesting!

  3. #3
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by masta' c View Post
    This should be interesting!
    The two with the 50 are. One is very raw and nasal though a magnet swap may fix that.

    I highly doubt the 64 will be usable but, I will try. There isn't a lot but, I may not need a lot for high resistance.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  4. #4
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    ^ Why is high resistance your goal???

  5. #5
    tonewood instigator
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexR View Post
    ^ Why is high resistance your goal???
    Because he thinks it will make his current design sound better.
    whisper words of wisdom,
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  6. #6
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chistopher View Post
    Because he thinks it will make his current design sound better.
    It isn't either.

    It's purely experimental. To see if it can be done, what kind of tone can be achieved.

    The 50 I wound is properly thick, heavy and sludgy but, sounds like the tone control is off permanently. Not the correct outcome in short BUT, for those who play stoner metal and don't think too much of clear high end, it'd work.

    So, if someone asks me for X amount of Y wire with a Z magnet, I can say, yes that'll be ??? Or, sorry chap, not going to work.
    Last edited by DeathMetalRob; 01-20-2020 at 06:23 AM.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  7. #7
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexR View Post
    ^ Why is high resistance your goal???
    What I have discovered is that high end in a passive diminishes above 200k with a ceramic magnet.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  8. #8
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Dave Locher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Two HUNDRED k? Really? Wow, you are an experimenter! I have a bit of admiration for someone who says "this will sound like $#!+. Let's try it and see, shall we?"

  9. #9
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Locher View Post
    Two HUNDRED k? Really? Wow, you are an experimenter! I have a bit of admiration for someone who says "this will sound like $#!+. Let's try it and see, shall we?"
    I'm English - it's what we do :P

    If one doesn't try to find the limits...

    It's not that bad a sound - just not a crisp sound.

    I can send you the prototype if you want to try it out.

    The other pickup, wound half as much sounds good and clean but with higher gain, a bit like playing a bass through a distortion pedal. A magnet change may fix that, then again, it may not.

    But, sounding good, bad or indifferent, it IS possible to make pickups with these gauges.

    64AWG, I doubt but, I will try. It's going to be like knitting fog.
    Last edited by DeathMetalRob; 01-20-2020 at 06:26 AM.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  10. #10
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Maybe try with different gauges either on the same bobbin, or on different bobbins. Some of the clarity can return with offsets

  11. #11
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexR View Post
    Maybe try with different gauges either on the same bobbin, or on different bobbins. Some of the clarity can return with offsets
    I have done a 'hybrid' wind for a set pickup. It's quite overwound but, does sound pretty nice, in fact.

    As to these, the material is what makes the unknown factor here. I have done identical winds on ONE coil with the same gauge wire but, a different material.

    One read 131k, the other read 0.261k both had the same amount of turns on it - I'll get them wired up and see what tonal differences there will be.

    As long as the wire conducts, you can use any gauge of any conductive material and you will get sound. Not necessarily a good sound (which is what pickups are all about) but, sound.

    It would create a 'grid' of where the best tone per material can be found.

    For instance:

    The world's favourite - the JB is a 16.6k pickup wound from copper.


    Material Ohms per circular mil/ft.
    Copper 10.3
    Aluminum 15.97
    Gold 14.14
    Silver 9.56
    Platinum 63.82
    Titanium 252.00
    Tungsten 33.22

    If we can apply the mathematics with figures taken from the SD website about the resistance of other materials we get these figures (assuming the same wire gauge):

    JB Copper - 16.6k
    JB Aluminium - 25.73k
    JB Gold - 22.78k
    JB Silver - 15.4k
    JB Platinum - 102.85k
    JB Titanium - 406.14k
    JB Tungsten - 53.54k

    What any of these (besides copper) would sound like - not a clue.

    But, you can get a guesstimate as to the thickness of tone you might get - even if titanium is just like hearing the guitar from three rooms away...
    Last edited by DeathMetalRob; 01-20-2020 at 06:42 AM.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  12. #12
    Ultimate Tone Slacker ICTGoober's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    You realize this has all been done before, and the norm we have now is the norm for a reason?

  13. #13
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by ICTGoober View Post
    You realize this has all been done before, and the norm we have now is the norm for a reason?
    I imagine so but, there's either never anybody to ask or nobody knows even if there is somebody to ask.

    Ultimately, what sounds good, I will sell. What doesn't sound good, I won't.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by ICTGoober View Post
    You realize this has all been done before, and the norm we have now is the norm for a reason?
    You wouldn't happen to have a list with all that info, would you? So we can look it over and review it?

    Thanks,

    Larry

  15. #15
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by larryguitar View Post
    You wouldn't happen to have a list with all that info, would you? So we can look it over and review it?

    Thanks,

    Larry
    I'm not sure there is one but, I see his point. I'm just not sure how far people actually went to get the full spectrum.

    Not only that, if people were to ask me for a custom with crazy specs, rather than be stumped, I could give them an actual price.
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  16. #16
    Ultimate Tone Slacker ICTGoober's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    At this point, pickups for musical instruments have been made for about 100 years. The experimentation is over, and for the most part - the answers have been found. That's all I'm saying. You want the story? Do the research. For God's sake don't start with YouTube. Start with the pioneers - Rickenbacker, etc. Pre-Fender and pre-Gibson. That's where the real story is at.

    I didn't say don't experiment. But if you want the real story - it's out there if you do the work.

  17. #17
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by ICTGoober View Post
    At this point, pickups for musical instruments have been made for about 100 years. The experimentation is over, and for the most part - the answers have been found. That's all I'm saying. You want the story? Do the research. For God's sake don't start with YouTube. Start with the pioneers - Rickenbacker, etc. Pre-Fender and pre-Gibson. That's where the real story is at.

    I didn't say don't experiment. But if you want the real story - it's out there if you do the work.
    Experimentation is never over. That's why new products come out every year.

    See Bareknuckle Pickups. I'm not sure many gave them a chance with their designs but, here they are. I'm not suggesting I'm up to their level but, they found something through these methods.

    For the sake of asking - what kind of tone would you look for in a design if you were to have a custom pickup made..?
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  18. #18
    tonewood instigator
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by ICTGoober View Post
    The experimentation is over, and for the most part - the answers have been found. That's all I'm saying. You want the story? Do the research. For God's sake don't start with YouTube. Start with the pioneers - Rickenbacker, etc. Pre-Fender and pre-Gibson. That's where the real story is at.
    People have been saying this about everything for the past several centuries.
    whisper words of wisdom,
    let it be

  19. #19
    Ultimate Tone Member DeathMetalRob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chistopher View Post
    People have been saying this about everything for the past several centuries.
    And then, somebody comes up with a game changer. Once again, not saying it's me.

    Is there any design that you might like..?
    Anything is possible, just not always advisable...

  20. #20
    Mojo's Minions
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    Default Re: Pushing the boundaries...

    I mean, guys run multiple amps to fill in the spectrum and make it sound huge. Imagine if you could simultaneously wind a bobbin with say 3 vastly different wire gauges. Would it do the same thing if they all were picking up the strings at the same time.

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