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  • #16
    Re: Rack tuners?

    Meh

    All a rack tuner will do is show you your actual tuning in more detail than you, your tuners, your intonation, or your ears have the ability to deal with.

    Strobe for fun tweeting to infinity at home? Go for it.
    Live? Better/faster ways today.
    Last edited by Aceman; 02-09-2020, 08:53 AM.
    Originally posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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    • #17
      Re: Rack tuners?

      Originally posted by dystrust View Post
      I had one of those Sabine rack tuners and sold it for like $50 in 2004 or so. The display on the Korg is 1000x easier to read, but they don't offer anything over a pedal besides being rack mountable and maybe a slightly bigger display.
      It was just mostly a fad once stage pedal tuners became available. but no doubt Sabine and Korg rack tuners were fun (the second Sabine being quite easy to see like the Korg) but in truth they are just cool looking and still carry the often desired stigma of being "pro" -but a Boss TU2 or similar is all a professional musician needs.
      “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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      • #18
        Re: Rack tuners?

        Originally posted by Mincer View Post
        A rack tuner would be great fixed on a bench.
        That is exactly my plan. I hate having to dig through my bench junk to find my tuner. Then again, I could organize my bench a little better.

        Btw, I looked up those Peterson rack tuners. Ouch! Those are expensive.

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        • #19
          Re: Rack tuners?

          Originally posted by Mincer View Post
          They make rack strobe tuners. If you are going to do it, do it right. And they look really cool, too.
          The Korg does strobe tuning.
          Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

          Originally posted by Douglas Adams
          This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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          • #20
            Re: Rack tuners?

            Honestly, the TC electronics strobe function is WAY more accurate on paper than the Peterson Strobe or others -although tests say they are about the same.

            and you don't NEED ANY of it. Only a clear display large enough for you to see and understand how to tune

            These tuners are orders of magnitude more accurate than any human can hear -essentially it makes you fiddle unnecessarily when playing live

            For studios, super accurate tuners are great for getting an instrument to vibrate as sympathetically as possible -but live makes zero difference.

            EVERY electrical signal based pedal or rack tuner on Sweetwater is at minimum twice the resolution than a human ear. -and some are quoted by the mfg as 250 times more sensitive (Polytune in Strobe mode)

            and even tested, just about everyone is twice the resolution https://tuniverse.io/detection-accuracy-compared/

            Point is -as long as it's an electrical signal style tuner (not a clip on) -you're good.

            make you decision for a tuner about workflow, and being able to see and operate it effectively.
            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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            • #21
              Re: Rack tuners?

              Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
              The Korg does strobe tuning.
              The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?

              Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
              Honestly, the TC electronics strobe function is WAY more accurate on paper than the Peterson Strobe or others -although tests say they are about the same.

              and you don't NEED ANY of it. Only a clear display large enough for you to see and understand how to tune

              These tuners are orders of magnitude more accurate than any human can hear -essentially it makes you fiddle unnecessarily when playing live

              For studios, super accurate tuners are great for getting an instrument to vibrate as sympathetically as possible -but live makes zero difference.

              EVERY electrical signal based pedal or rack tuner on Sweetwater is at minimum twice the resolution than a human ear. -and some are quoted by the mfg as 250 times more sensitive (Polytune in Strobe mode)

              and even tested, just about everyone is twice the resolution https://tuniverse.io/detection-accuracy-compared/

              Point is -as long as it's an electrical signal style tuner (not a clip on) -you're good.

              make you decision for a tuner about workflow, and being able to see and operate it effectively.
              All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

              Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

              Artie

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              • #22
                Re: Rack tuners?

                Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post
                The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?



                All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

                Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

                Artie
                No prob! -if you look at the tests I posted, just remember -the human ear can hear pitch at about 5 cents pitch shift or 1/20th of a tone. You can see that almost every tuner possible tests at 2 cents accuracy or more -many at .1 (50x the resolution) and some strobes at .02 (250x the resolution!)

                The only electrical tuner I would avoid would be a very inexpensive one that doesn't post expected accuracy data and any super expensive ones for live.

                The reason Boss TU2s feel so smooth and doesn't waft back and forth in tune and out of tune on the read out (with the very annoying subtle modulation of the guitar intonation) when you use them on a stage is that they are only accurate at +/- 1 Cent (5 times the resolution of human hearing) -which means they ignore the problematic parts of a guitar output that people can't hear -and are instead smooth and stable tuning up to pitch and also FAST!

                So nobody assume more accurate is better for what you are doing -especially for live.

                Tuner accuracy is like Machine Head Gear Ratio or Skateboard Bearing ABEC rating -if you dig a little, you'll realize it's pumped up for marketing and makes little difference for anything other than a way to pump up the list price if you look into it.
                Last edited by NegativeEase; 02-09-2020, 03:53 PM.
                “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                • #23
                  Re: Rack tuners?

                  Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post
                  The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?



                  All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

                  Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

                  Artie
                  I've got the pedal version and find it's a great little tuner . . . But other that turning it on to see what it's about once never felt the need to switch to strobe. The regular tuning function is decent. Maybe the next time I do a setup.
                  Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                  Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                  This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Rack tuners?

                    Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                    I've got the pedal version and find it's a great little tuner . . . But other that turning it on to see what it's about once never felt the need to switch to strobe. The regular tuning function is decent. Maybe the next time I do a setup.
                    Might I add that I think where a strobe or super accurate tuner makes sense.

                    they can reveal issues with instable headstocks, loose machine heads, loose nuts, loose direct attached bridges, poor fretwork, loose tune-omatic bridge pins, pickup height issues, really anything that creates instability in your strung weapon that can be revealed in an intonation oscillation to and from pitch.

                    but this is for a professional or someone doing deep setups or serious hobbyist
                    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                    • #25
                      Re: Rack tuners?

                      Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                      ...Machine Head Gear Ratio ...
                      Man, that's a dangerous rabbit hole. Tuners in general... if they work, they're fine. I swapped the stock tuners on my Warwick for Sperzels, but only because 4 Sperzels weigh the same as 4 of the stocks.

                      Ever try to use those horrendous planetary banjo tuners? They have something really stupid like a 6:1 ratio, which is definitely way less accurate than the human ear.
                      “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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                      • #26
                        Re: Rack tuners?

                        Originally posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
                        Man, that's a dangerous rabbit hole. Tuners in general... if they work, they're fine. I swapped the stock tuners on my Warwick for Sperzels, but only because 4 Sperzels weigh the same as 4 of the stocks.

                        Ever try to use those horrendous planetary banjo tuners? They have something really stupid like a 6:1 ratio, which is definitely way less accurate than the human ear.
                        Yeah, for another thread, but rest assured that with an appropriate sized button and a person who knows how to tune and has a decent ear once you exceed a 12:1 ratio the advantage in tuners is the machining quality and detail on the fitment of the gears NOT the higher ratio -now, it can be nice for ease of dialing in at 14:1 or 16:1 -BUT not required AT ALL to achieve a professional tuning. and once you start to exceed around 18:1 it's just marketing BS in most cases unless the manufacturer is doing multi stage or a tech approach gearing where the ratio means something else.
                        “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                        • #27
                          Re: Rack tuners?

                          Peterson is superior because they offer "Sweetened" tuning.

                          As anyone who isn't tone deaf can attest, the B string, when tuned precisely to Hz / concert pitch (equal temperament), always sounds wonky when playing chords at root or further up positions.

                          But especially doing root position ("cowboy") chords, like D or G. You can actually hear (well, again, if you're not tone deaf) the dissonance and or "beats".

                          Peterson's "Sweetened" tuning tunes the B string for a happy medium... so when you play a D root, it sounds good... then a G root, it sounds good.

                          I have both the Strobostomp and clip on Petersons... I used to think the strobe tuners and the Peterson "Sweetened" thing was all hogwash... it isn't.
                          Last edited by LLL; 02-09-2020, 07:35 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Rack tuners?

                            Originally posted by LLL View Post
                            Peterson is superior because they offer "Sweetened" tuning.

                            As anyone who isn't tone deaf can attest, the B string, when tuned precisely to Hz / concert pitch (equal temperament), always sounds wonky when playing chords at root or further up positions.

                            But especially doing root position ("cowboy") chords, like D or G. You can actually hear (well, again, if you're not tone deaf) the dissonance and or "beats".

                            Peterson's "Sweetened" tuning tunes the B string for a happy medium... so when you play a D root, it sounds good... then a G root, it sounds good.

                            I have both the Strobostomp and clip on Petersons... I used to think the strobe tuners and the Peterson "Sweetened" thing was all hogwash... it isn't.
                            Thats super cool
                            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                            • #29
                              Re: Rack tuners?

                              As the OP, I don't mind if this morphs into related issues. Tuning is tuning. One side to do it. One side to measure what you're doing. And yes, that "B" string thing has always driven me nuts.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Rack tuners?

                                Re: sweetened tubings

                                On his podcast, Jude Gold mentioned how Keith Richards used a sweetened version of open G. Jude demonstrated it by playing “Start Me Up” in normal tuning, then did it with the tweaked B string. Pretty obvious he was right.
                                “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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