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Thread: Rack tuners?

  1. #21
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    The Korg does strobe tuning.
    The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    Honestly, the TC electronics strobe function is WAY more accurate on paper than the Peterson Strobe or others -although tests say they are about the same.

    and you don't NEED ANY of it. Only a clear display large enough for you to see and understand how to tune

    These tuners are orders of magnitude more accurate than any human can hear -essentially it makes you fiddle unnecessarily when playing live

    For studios, super accurate tuners are great for getting an instrument to vibrate as sympathetically as possible -but live makes zero difference.

    EVERY electrical signal based pedal or rack tuner on Sweetwater is at minimum twice the resolution than a human ear. -and some are quoted by the mfg as 250 times more sensitive (Polytune in Strobe mode)

    and even tested, just about everyone is twice the resolution https://tuniverse.io/detection-accuracy-compared/

    Point is -as long as it's an electrical signal style tuner (not a clip on) -you're good.

    make you decision for a tuner about workflow, and being able to see and operate it effectively.
    All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

    Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

    Artie

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtieToo View Post
    The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?



    All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

    Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

    Artie
    No prob! -if you look at the tests I posted, just remember -the human ear can hear pitch at about 5 cents pitch shift or 1/20th of a tone. You can see that almost every tuner possible tests at 2 cents accuracy or more -many at .1 (50x the resolution) and some strobes at .02 (250x the resolution!)

    The only electrical tuner I would avoid would be a very inexpensive one that doesn't post expected accuracy data and any super expensive ones for live.

    The reason Boss TU2s feel so smooth and doesn't waft back and forth in tune and out of tune on the read out (with the very annoying subtle modulation of the guitar intonation) when you use them on a stage is that they are only accurate at +/- 1 Cent (5 times the resolution of human hearing) -which means they ignore the problematic parts of a guitar output that people can't hear -and are instead smooth and stable tuning up to pitch and also FAST!

    So nobody assume more accurate is better for what you are doing -especially for live.

    Tuner accuracy is like Machine Head Gear Ratio or Skateboard Bearing ABEC rating -if you dig a little, you'll realize it's pumped up for marketing and makes little difference for anything other than a way to pump up the list price if you look into it.
    Last edited by NegativeEase; 02-09-2020 at 01:53 PM.
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  3. #23
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtieToo View Post
    The Peterson is 10x more, so it must be better? Right?



    All excellent points. This will be for workbench/workflow. In a stationary setup. And both my Snark and TC Electronics, are clip-on. I think I'm going to get the Korg Pitchblack. I won't rush into it though. Still gotta think.

    Thanks again all for some really good info and insight.

    Artie
    I've got the pedal version and find it's a great little tuner . . . But other that turning it on to see what it's about once never felt the need to switch to strobe. The regular tuning function is decent. Maybe the next time I do a setup.
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    I've got the pedal version and find it's a great little tuner . . . But other that turning it on to see what it's about once never felt the need to switch to strobe. The regular tuning function is decent. Maybe the next time I do a setup.
    Might I add that I think where a strobe or super accurate tuner makes sense.

    they can reveal issues with instable headstocks, loose machine heads, loose nuts, loose direct attached bridges, poor fretwork, loose tune-omatic bridge pins, pickup height issues, really anything that creates instability in your strung weapon that can be revealed in an intonation oscillation to and from pitch.

    but this is for a professional or someone doing deep setups or serious hobbyist
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeEase View Post
    ...Machine Head Gear Ratio ...
    Man, that's a dangerous rabbit hole. Tuners in general... if they work, they're fine. I swapped the stock tuners on my Warwick for Sperzels, but only because 4 Sperzels weigh the same as 4 of the stocks.

    Ever try to use those horrendous planetary banjo tuners? They have something really stupid like a 6:1 ratio, which is definitely way less accurate than the human ear.

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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Man, that's a dangerous rabbit hole. Tuners in general... if they work, they're fine. I swapped the stock tuners on my Warwick for Sperzels, but only because 4 Sperzels weigh the same as 4 of the stocks.

    Ever try to use those horrendous planetary banjo tuners? They have something really stupid like a 6:1 ratio, which is definitely way less accurate than the human ear.
    Yeah, for another thread, but rest assured that with an appropriate sized button and a person who knows how to tune and has a decent ear once you exceed a 12:1 ratio the advantage in tuners is the machining quality and detail on the fitment of the gears NOT the higher ratio -now, it can be nice for ease of dialing in at 14:1 or 16:1 -BUT not required AT ALL to achieve a professional tuning. and once you start to exceed around 18:1 it's just marketing BS in most cases unless the manufacturer is doing multi stage or a tech approach gearing where the ratio means something else.
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  7. #27
    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Peterson is superior because they offer "Sweetened" tuning.

    As anyone who isn't tone deaf can attest, the B string, when tuned precisely to Hz / concert pitch (equal temperament), always sounds wonky when playing chords at root or further up positions.

    But especially doing root position ("cowboy") chords, like D or G. You can actually hear (well, again, if you're not tone deaf) the dissonance and or "beats".

    Peterson's "Sweetened" tuning tunes the B string for a happy medium... so when you play a D root, it sounds good... then a G root, it sounds good.

    I have both the Strobostomp and clip on Petersons... I used to think the strobe tuners and the Peterson "Sweetened" thing was all hogwash... it isn't.
    Last edited by LLL; 02-09-2020 at 05:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Peterson is superior because they offer "Sweetened" tuning.

    As anyone who isn't tone deaf can attest, the B string, when tuned precisely to Hz / concert pitch (equal temperament), always sounds wonky when playing chords at root or further up positions.

    But especially doing root position ("cowboy") chords, like D or G. You can actually hear (well, again, if you're not tone deaf) the dissonance and or "beats".

    Peterson's "Sweetened" tuning tunes the B string for a happy medium... so when you play a D root, it sounds good... then a G root, it sounds good.

    I have both the Strobostomp and clip on Petersons... I used to think the strobe tuners and the Peterson "Sweetened" thing was all hogwash... it isn't.
    Thats super cool
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    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    As the OP, I don't mind if this morphs into related issues. Tuning is tuning. One side to do it. One side to measure what you're doing. And yes, that "B" string thing has always driven me nuts.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Re: sweetened tubings

    On his podcast, Jude Gold mentioned how Keith Richards used a sweetened version of open G. Jude demonstrated it by playing “Start Me Up” in normal tuning, then did it with the tweaked B string. Pretty obvious he was right.

  11. #31
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    In my teaching studio/workbench, I use a tuner on a laptop called AP Tuner, which is really accurate. It uses the microphone of the laptop.
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  12. #32
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Nice. Just downloaded it. I'll check her out.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Are you into smartphone tuners? The TC polytune app is pretty good.

  14. #34
    Mojo's Minions ErikH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Of all the tuners I've had, the PolyTune is my favorite but I've since moved on from that. I don't mind clip-on tuners and they have gotten better and better. A few years ago I picked up the Korg Sledgehammer clip-on. It is really accurate, easy to read, has a strobe mode and doesn't take up space on the pedalboard. When on stage, I use the handheld version of it (GA Custom) and feed signal to it from the effects loop send on my amp. Been real happy with it. I don't care if there's not a mute option. I turn my amp's master down when I need to change guitars. A very old school way but I don't want a lot of stuff on the floor out front.

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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Are you into smartphone tuners? The TC polytune app is pretty good.
    I use AP Tuner on my iPhone, which is really accurate and easy to see.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    I use AP Tuner on my iPhone, which is really accurate and easy to see.
    Dammit... another $10 tuner app I’m gonna have to buy.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Dammit... another $10 tuner app I’m gonna have to buy.
    But this will be the last one. I use this more than all of the other apps put together.
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  18. #38
    Chris JB_From_Hell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    But this will be the last one. I use this more than all of the other apps put together.
    I’ll buy it, and I’ll use it, and it’ll be the last one... until I see another one

  19. #39
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
    Are you into smartphone tuners? The TC polytune app is pretty good.
    Uhmmm . . . not so much. I have the hardware TC Polytune. Much more fun. I really don't want Google to know everything I do.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Rack tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    I use AP Tuner on my iPhone, which is really accurate and easy to see.
    Have you compared it againt InsTuner? I really like this one, and it's free.

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