banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Long vs Short pokepieces

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Long vs Short pokepieces

    Hi.
    I heard that if I cut polepieces equally baseplate, this give me more high end. Is true?
    I would like to add little high end to E and g string.

  • #2
    Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

    I enjoy my long pokepiece.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

      I think it reduces lows more than it increases highs, but I'm not sure if that's true or if it even matters.
      Hey what about the B string? Does it sound different than the E and G?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

        Originally posted by CarlosG View Post
        Hi.
        I heard that if I cut polepieces equally baseplate, this give me more high end. Is true?
        I would like to add little high end to E and g string.
        Hi.

        Shortened screw poles diminish Eddy currents and overall inductance. Hence a brighter tone, typically [= theoretically, if you prefer; practically, results may vary as mentioned in the answer below.]

        Now, this effect is global. You won't brighten separately the tone of your high E just by cutting its screw pole... but you might end with a weaker sounding high E. :-/

        It's possible to obtain a brighter or darker tone from a string separately thanks to a screw pole made of a different alloy... but it would require to know the alloy of the other (original) screw poles. :-/

        Now, you’re free to experiment with screw poles of different alloys and to shorten them if you want.

        Food for thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf4j...ature=emb_logo

        NOTE -Another way to do what you want would be to mount some G and E strings themselves made of a different alloy than your other strings… :-)

        FWIW (my 2 cents).
        Last edited by freefrog; 02-20-2020, 06:34 AM.
        Duncan user since the 80's...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

          Originally posted by CarlosG View Post
          Hi.
          I heard that if I cut polepieces equally baseplate, this give me more high end. Is true?
          I would like to add little high end to E and g string.
          The resulting outcome of the modding will be different in different p'ups, depending on type and alloy of the polepiece and magnet type and grade. Can't generalize like you think you can. Sorry!

          /Peter
          Peter Pedersen aka Discharged
          Kolding, Denmark

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

            Polepiece alloy makes a difference. You could try replacing the poles at the "E" and "G" strings with 1022 screws (they are probably already 1020 in the pup but not necessarily), and put 1016 screws in the 4 other spots. This will make the "E" and "G" strings a little brighter relative to the rest of the strings. Shortening those two poles will also have some effect in brightenning them.
            Originally Posted by IanBallard
            Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

              Hi, new member here
              Wow, this is news to me. I've often wondered why some humbuckers appear to be more sensitive to pole piece adjustment than others. Of course, there are many factors involved, not least the individual guitar, but it seems like some humbuckers just require more staggering for balanced output.
              I've never reflected over the pole screw lengths, nor the alloy. I thought it was probably due to the individual magnets.

              You know, vintage staggering where the G-pole has to be set higher due to the weak magnetic pull of a wound G string. Like most people these days I use a plain G string most of the time and therefore have to lower the G-pole. Usually a couple of turns would be sufficient, but sometimes I would have to screw the G-pole all the way down and raise the D-pole quite a bit (and balance the others accordingly).

              -How do you explain this variation? Is it about the lengths and alloy of the pole screws, or something else? Maybe in combination with the magnet?

              -Could pole screw specifications be expected to vary, for the same model pup from the same manufacturer?

              -When modding a pickup by magnet replacement, would it also make sense to try out a set of different pole screws, maybe cut to individual lengths?

              Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                Originally posted by Al Nico V View Post
                You know, vintage staggering where the G-pole has to be set higher due to the weak magnetic pull of a wound G string...I use a plain G string most of the time and therefore have to lower the G-pole..How do you explain this variation?
                You sort of explained it to yourself...the height differences are compensating for the differences in the mass of the strings. Plain G strings have greater mass than wound G strings, therefore they have a greater impact on the magnetic field and require less compensation. As far as adjusting for the other strings and "balancing out" a pickup, you're just fine-tuning the compensation of each pole piece.

                What this thread is suggesting is that, in addition to the simple height adjustment of a pole piece, you can further change the response of a string and even the sound of an entire pickup by changing the material of the pole pieces and also the pole piece length. It starts to get a little advanced when we begin to think about inductance, eddy currents, etc, but most players don't need that information.

                To answer your other questions: Generally, the pole pieces for a particular manufacturer stay the same over time. I know that's largely been the case with SD, DiMarzio, Gibson, etc. To answer you question about mag-swapping, I would strongly recommend changing the magnet and trying it out before moving on to swapping pole pieces. One change at a time, so you know what each change is doing and whether you like it or not...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                  Originally posted by Masta' C View Post
                  You sort of explained it to yourself...the height differences are compensating for the differences in the mass of the strings. Plain G strings have greater mass than wound G strings, therefore they have a greater impact on the magnetic field and require less compensation. As far as adjusting for the other strings and "balancing out" a pickup, you're just fine-tuning the compensation of each pole piece.

                  What this thread is suggesting is that, in addition to the simple height adjustment of a pole piece, you can further change the response of a string and even the sound of an entire pickup by changing the material of the pole pieces and also the pole piece length. It starts to get a little advanced when we begin to think about inductance, eddy currents, etc, but most players don't need that information.

                  To answer your other questions: Generally, the pole pieces for a particular manufacturer stay the same over time. I know that's largely been the case with SD, DiMarzio, Gibson, etc. To answer you question about mag-swapping, I would strongly recommend changing the magnet and trying it out before moving on to swapping pole pieces. One change at a time, so you know what each change is doing and whether you like it or not...
                  Thanks

                  Yeah, it's obvious that the pole screw height above the pickup affects magnetic pull and output. What I haven't given any thought is that the length of the pole screw protruding from the base plate could also affect the signal according to above posts.
                  And I haven't reflected over the fact that the magnetic properties of the pole screws obviously also must have an impact... I have just assumed pole screws are all the same.

                  What I do know is that pickup height as well as pole screw height not only affect output, but also tone. And that the magnet specification and Gauss-level also affect output and tone.

                  In conclusion this all means that a pickup in theory could be fine tuned, by individual selection of pole screws for each string. How well it works in real life probably depends...

                  I guess major manufacturers are not tuning their pickups, -maybe some boutique winders do?

                  What I still don't get is why some humbuckers must be more staggered than others to acchieve balanced output. -Would it depend on the balance of the second coil...uneven coil winding, the magnet or something else? (like for example the alloy of the pole screws...In that case, pole screws are different even if they come from the same manufacturer...)

                  (I don't intend to hijack the thread, hopefully my questions are related to the OP).
                  Last edited by Al Nico V; 02-25-2020, 03:11 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                    Originally posted by Nagisa View Post
                    I enjoy my long pokepiece.
                    It's not the size of your pokepiece, but how you use it. :P
                    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                    Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                      What’s the effect of lowering a humbucker and raising the pole pieces? And the effect of raising a humbucker and lowering the poles?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                        Originally posted by Bowtomecha View Post
                        What’s the effect of lowering a humbucker and raising the pole pieces? And the effect of raising a humbucker and lowering the poles?
                        Correct me if I'm wrong since I'm just starting to get into adjusting individual pole pieces now, but I believe that lowering the humbucker will reduce some low-end muddiness and create less output. Raising the individual pole pieces will give you more clarity, slightly more high end, and some more volume.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                          I believe most pups come with 1020 alloy pole pieces (could be 1018). There is no need for manufacturers to change something (the alloy and length of the screws) that only has to do with each individual's personal preference and has such a small affect on the tone of the pup.
                          Originally Posted by IanBallard
                          Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                            Anyone know for sure which manufacturers use which alloy? Afaik, only throbak publishes that data.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Long vs Short pokepieces

                              Originally posted by Al Nico V View Post
                              I guess major manufacturers are not tuning their pickups, -maybe some boutique winders do?
                              Yep: see for example Wade Westbrook from Motor City Pickups (@ Detroit; one of the finest artisans in USA from my European POV). :-)

                              And FWIW, tuning already existing pickups can save money by avoiding an expensive swap. I'm periodically upgrading pre-existing PU's by manipulating their magnetic and LRC specs for this reason.



                              What I still don't get is why some humbuckers must be more staggered than others to acchieve balanced output. -Would it depend on the balance of the second coil...uneven coil winding, the magnet or something else?
                              A same set of HB’s has been tried here in a semi hollow, a Flying V then a double neck guitar with bolt on necks.
                              Same scale, same pots, same strings, similar hardware.
                              In the last guitar, on both pickups, the screw poles below the G string had to be elevated of several mm (!).

                              In my understanding, such differences are due mostly to a “comb filtering” effect caused by the physical structure of the guitars and their vibrational modes.

                              Now, it doesn't deny the role of screw poles and their complex interaction with other parts of the pickups. Even plated vs non plated pole pieces can make a (slight but noticeable) difference IME. :-)
                              Duncan user since the 80's...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X