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Thread: Anti-Scales

  1. #21
    OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE! Clint 55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Obsessive Compulsive View Post
    Do I sound like I don't know what I am doing? That obvious? Lol...

    Playing certain modes over a natural major/ minor already makes you sound 'outside'; you are just so accustomed to certain notes they sound 'natural'.

    There are 12 notes in a scale, it's a shame to stick to standard notes and risk sounding like everybody else. You want to know how I use it? I use the flatted ninth to create tension as resolving to tonic in V7-I progression (altered dominant scale).
    Yeah but not all music takes well to chromaticism. You have to be smart about how you use it. Jazz is obvious. Metal actually isn't that chromatic and is pretty structured around pentatonic and minor lol!
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    Yeah but not all music takes well to chromaticism. You have to be smart about how you use it. Jazz is obvious. Metal actually isn't that chromatic and is pretty structured around pentatonic and minor lol!
    You the authority on metal? Lol..

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  3. #23
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Modes sound the way they do because of the chords in back of them, and the relationship between the notes and chords. To hear how the lydian mode sounds (and it shouldn't sound dissonant at all), try it over E/B and F#/B chords.
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  4. #24
    OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE! Clint 55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Obsessive Compulsive View Post
    You the authority on metal? Lol..
    It's just an opinion of mine that metal isn't that chromatic. With jazz, you can start with 12 tones to your hearts content as long as you relate it melodically and harmonically.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Living Colour always did some chromatic lead stuff . . . although maybe it was more hard rock than metal.
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  6. #26
    Mojo's Minions Gtrjunior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    Modes sound the way they do because of the chords in back of them, and the relationship between the notes and chords. To hear how the lydian mode sounds (and it shouldn't sound dissonant at all), try it over E/B and F#/B chords.
    Exactly...the player needs to play the scale(s) that the chord progression dictates...not the other way around. Its like trying to stuff a square peg into a round home when you do that.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    It's just an opinion of mine that metal isn't that chromatic. With jazz, you can start with 12 tones to your hearts content as long as you relate it melodically and harmonically.
    Actually I didn't mean to chromaticize everything or use all 12 notes, but to NOT stick to the standard form.

    There are a lot of metal with chromatics, mainly the progressive ones. Tony Macalpine and Derek Sherenian are good example...and those other Dream Theater derivatives/ associates.

  8. #28
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    BTW, there are a ton of mode based blogs here on the SD site for anyone wanting to learn more about them. I wrote them, and tried to explain everything in a very clear way.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    The whole half dimished scale is pretty anti. What the eff chord fits into that? Besides diminished. 1,2,b3,4,b5,#5,6,7.
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  10. #30
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    The whole half dimished scale is pretty anti. What the eff chord fits into that? Besides diminished. 1,2,b3,4,b5,#5,6,7.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    I have an understanding of how to use altered scales on dominant chords. The ones I use the most are diminished whole tone aka melodic minor a half step above the root of the dominant chord, or whole tone, in addition to mixolydian which isn't altered. On the list to do is get my diminished scales together. I know how to use the half whole diminished scale over a dominant chord because the scale degrees go 1,b2,b3,3,#4,5,6,b7. Has all the tones of an altered dominant chord. Just thinking about how to use the tonality of the whole half diminished scale since it doesn't fit any usual chords besides diminished. Could stick it on a minor chord for an out sound.
    Last edited by Clint 55; 02-25-2020 at 11:43 PM.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    Could stick it on a minor chord for an out sound.
    Yup, sounds baller like that.

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Great stuff in this thread!

    Finally had time to squeeze a more constructed piece. (Well lead, the only part that incorporates anti-scale idea partially is a messy improvisation but anyway...) Also got to break out my new sm57. Set it up as stereo with my old B&O mic, as it seemed to sound better than just either in mono.

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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    BTW, there are a ton of mode based blogs here on the SD site for anyone wanting to learn more about them. I wrote them, and tried to explain everything in a very clear way.
    Believe it or not, not everyone has the wherewithal to study theories, and it is boring eventhough the reward can change your life. Peope would rather talk about new gear, pickup, tone chasing cause it involces purchasing and trying out new stuff.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    Just thinking about how to use the tonality of the whole half diminished scale since it doesn't fit any usual chords besides diminished. Could stick it on a minor chord for an out sound.
    Can you just not use regular minor chord and not worry about every damn note in the scale has to fit the chord tones? Or maybe an augmented slash chord like in the key of F, Eaug/F (E,D#,C) but still there is 5 in the chord so theoretically it is wrong but realistically it works cause it resolves to C.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Uh huh I thought it sounded good over a tonic minor. I just played it over an F-6.
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Obsessive Compulsive View Post
    Believe it or not, not everyone has the wherewithal to study theories, and it is boring eventhough the reward can change your life. Peope would rather talk about new gear, pickup, tone chasing cause it involces purchasing and trying out new stuff.
    I actually really like reading theoretical stuff. If I just had a time to really delve in.
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    BTW, there are a ton of mode based blogs here on the SD site for anyone wanting to learn more about them. I wrote them, and tried to explain everything in a very clear way.
    I've read and learned a lot from those articles. Didn't realize that you were the guy writing them Mincer, thanks!
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarStv View Post
    I've read and learned a lot from those articles. Didn't realize that you were the guy writing them Mincer, thanks!
    Pretty much every music theory article on here is something I wrote. At the time, there was no one else writing about anything like that on here. I am happy they were of some use to you!
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  20. #40
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anti-Scales


    Is this something like what we have been discussing?

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