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P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

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  • P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

    Pretty straightforward questions:
    1) Do the P90s in Epiphone guitars have the same character as Gibson P90s?
    2) Do dog ear and soap bar P90s sound different or the same?

    I keep finding myself curious to try a P90 guitar. Never touched one. Shops around me don't carry Gibson but I come across Epis. Do the pickups sound more-or-less the same? Enough to be able to say "yeah, I dig this" or "nope, not for me"?

    Also, I just read that dog ears have more snarl because the base plate is bigger. Fact or fiction? Sounds like bs to me but if this forum has taught me anything it's that a lot of variables can have an effect on tone so I'm in no position to judge.

  • #2
    Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

    It’s the same pickup under the cover. The baseplate has negligible effect on the tone, and the slightly larger baseplate is just the mounting tabs away from the coil.

    But that’s not to say the Epi and Gibson pickups are the same. Some Epi pickups are very low end budget pickups, and aren’t that great.

    I have no experience with these particular pickups.


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    • #3
      Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

      I say this with some hesitation because I am sure someone will jump all over it but I find that P-90's regardless of quality generally sound pretty good.

      The style of pickup just seems to lend itself to having a lot of character. Now I have had a few ugly ones but they were still kind of funky and useable just maybe more in a trashy kind of way. The only ones I flat out didn't care for were the DiMarzio Vintage output P-90's, they were missing the wire-y/growl-y sound in the guitar I had them in.

      I've never replaced P-90's in an Epi with Gibson versions but I have had a setneck Epi Jr that had the stock P-90 pickup and it was very good.

      As for Dogear vs Soapbar I couldn't really tell you. I would say the differences have more to do with the particular guitar but who knows? I dig them both.

      Find a halfway decent P-90 guitar and mess around with a few different pickups I am sure you'll find a sound or 2 you like. I saw Epi is coming out with a P-90 Special, could be a lot of bang for the buck?
      My Bands -
      https://kamikazechoir.hearnow.com/
      www.instagram.com/kamikazechoir
      www.reverbnation.com/theheartlessdevils

      Just some fun guitar stuff from time to time
      GUITAR KULTURE

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      • #4
        Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

        If you’re just wanting to try the overall sound, try any P90 - the character comes from the wind, magnet and dimensions much, much more than the difference between P90 models.


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        • #5
          Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

          Epi now has a "Pro" version of their P90, which has vintage construction and reportedly is much better sounding than their older P90.
          Haven't heard it myself, though.
          Al

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          • #6
            Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

            Originally posted by Dave Locher View Post
            Pretty straightforward questions:
            1) Do the P90s in Epiphone guitars have the same character as Gibson P90s?
            2) Do dog ear and soap bar P90s sound different or the same?

            I keep finding myself curious to try a P90 guitar. Never touched one. Shops around me don't carry Gibson but I come across Epis. Do the pickups sound more-or-less the same? Enough to be able to say "yeah, I dig this" or "nope, not for me"?

            Also, I just read that dog ears have more snarl because the base plate is bigger. Fact or fiction? Sounds like bs to me but if this forum has taught me anything it's that a lot of variables can have an effect on tone so I'm in no position to judge.
            Hello,

            Here is my indifferent take...

            1) P90's have in common a large magnetic field due to their 2 bar mags and a high inductance. These features explain their thick sound and set them apart among single coils (other high power / middy / beefy SC's having often a narrower "magnetic windows").

            So, they have always a similar "character" as long as their P90 look is not purely cosmetic.

            Now, "cheap" stock pickups are often designed to cut corners: in Korean PRS SE's or Korean Hamer XT's for example, P90's include no keeper bars (just like Lollar P90's, LOL) and their bar mag tend to be short sintered ones.
            The good news is that a keeper bar is easy to add and mags are easy to change, as well as screw poles. That's what I've done to give more character to OEM P90's and it worked in a very satisfying IMHO. I find P90's easier to upgrade than HB's.

            I honestly don't remember if Epi P90's include keeper bars or not... but if they don't, they should be easy to make closer to the classic Gibson design which started it all.

            2)In my personal memories and/or experience, dog ear P90's tend to have a higher DCR and more powerful mags. I wouldn't venture to claim that it's always true but that's where I'd search why they are supposed to have more snarl.
            It doesn't deny a possible slight tonal difference between tin dipped brass , brass and NS baseplates but it can probably be consensually described as "subtle". :-)

            FWIW. YMMV.
            Last edited by freefrog; 03-01-2020, 01:06 AM.
            Duncan user since the 80's...

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            • #7
              Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

              I only have extended experience with Gibson and Lollar P90's. I've played a Epiphones with P90's and while they weren't bad, I wouldn't hesitate changing them to something else. The Lollar I have a Dogear. It's a custom tapped wind that I asked for and Jason delivered in spades. It has that snarly bark and big fat P90 sound to it. The Gibsons I used where soapbars in a SG Classic. I really liked those as well. While the new Epi "Pro" pickups may be better, I'd rather go for something like Gibson or Lollar, or even Seymour Duncan since I haven't tried those yet.

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              • #8
                Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                Maybe I wasn't clear: I just wanted to know if a P90 Epiphone is close enough to Gibson to be able to tell if I like P90s overall. Sounds like the consensus is "yes"?

                If I DO like the P90 thing then my next step would surely be to find a version I really like.

                I'm just curious about them in general. I do not like single coils, at all. I like humbuckers. But there are some songs I like that are P90 which makes me think I might have missed out all these years.

                Next time I see ANY pop guitar in a shop I will take it for a spin.

                Thanks, everyone.

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                • #9
                  Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                  I'm not a single-coil guy either (Strat or Tele). I've tried on numerous occasions and just can't gel with them completely. The only set I did really like where the Fender SCN's. Aside from those it's all humbuckers, yet I like them split. Go figure. P-90's are a whole different animal. Yes, they are single-coils but they have a vibe all their own and I like them, a lot.

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                  • #10
                    Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                    I think you could happily do the 'do I like p90's' generally speaking with Epi pickups.

                    I don't think you'd quite get to where a really good aftermarket p90 tone is, even with Gibson ones. IME even modern Gibson ones can be a bit lackluster......all of the 3 sets of modern ones I've had were - which must be the worst luck going around, as I know of a lot of people who have liked their Gibby p90's in modern axes.

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                    • #11
                      Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                      Originally posted by ErikH View Post
                      I only have extended experience with Gibson and Lollar P90's. I've played a Epiphones with P90's and while they weren't bad, I wouldn't hesitate changing them to something else. The Lollar I have a Dogear. It's a custom tapped wind that I asked for and Jason delivered in spades. It has that snarly bark and big fat P90 sound to it. The Gibsons I used where soapbars in a SG Classic. I really liked those as well. While the new Epi "Pro" pickups may be better, I'd rather go for something like Gibson or Lollar, or even Seymour Duncan since I haven't tried those yet.
                      The SG Classic P-90's are dogears under the soap covers but the differences seem so small I can't believe the footprint would have a big impact on the overall sound
                      My Bands -
                      https://kamikazechoir.hearnow.com/
                      www.instagram.com/kamikazechoir
                      www.reverbnation.com/theheartlessdevils

                      Just some fun guitar stuff from time to time
                      GUITAR KULTURE

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                      • #12
                        Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                        A P-90 is a different animal. And there are many different takes on it. To just try one to see if you generally like it can be risky because of the extreme differences between them. I would certainly recommend that you try several very different guitars from different manufacturers but all with P-90s to get a better idea of what you're dealing with.

                        I love P-90s in general and have easily a couple dozen in my guitars. Some are "el cheapo" pups and some are very expensive brand names. Most of them I have replaced magnets in to fine tune them. I find that they sound very different and some didn't originally sound great (one of the reasons for so much mag swapping). One interesting thing is that although I usually hate...I mean HATE...the sound of ceramic magnets (especially in humbuckers), I have one set of P-90s that came with ceramics which I was about to change without even trying the pups first, just because I always hate ceramics. But I was lazy I guess and just put them in one of my guitars for the heck of it. What a shock!! Those P-90s are maybe my favorites. What a great aggressive sound with such a strong and tight bottom end and bright highs! They still have some of that brittle piercing high end that I don't like, but the rest of the tone and response is so terrific that it would be counter-productive to try to improve them with any mag swap.

                        Typically my favorite mags in a P-90 are A5 or A8 or a combination of the two. But I've got some with A2, A4, A9, UOA5, etc. It all depends on the specific wind of the pup and the guitar it's in.

                        Good luck in your search. I hope you become as impressed with P-90s as I am.
                        Originally Posted by IanBallard
                        Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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                        • #13
                          Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                          I just have to add one more thing...probably the worst, most blah sounding P-90s that I have tried were Gibsons. Even dramatic mag swaps had a hard time improving them.
                          Originally Posted by IanBallard
                          Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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                          • #14
                            Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                            Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post
                            I just have to add one more thing...probably the worst, most blah sounding P-90s that I have tried were Gibsons. Even dramatic mag swaps had a hard time improving them.
                            IME, modern Gibson PU's tend to include overgaussed magnets and metal parts made of "non vintage correct" alloys. I think that the OP was reffering to the original (vintage) Gibson recipe. At least it's on this basis that Ive previously answered... :-)
                            Duncan user since the 80's...

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                            • #15
                              Re: P90 questions: Epi vs Gibson, soap bar vs dog ear?

                              https://youtu.be/9TBGRpOQQDw

                              The new Epiphone guitars look awesome. Here's an Anderton's comparison video between Epi's LP Junior and Special and the Gibson equivalent.


                              Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it's a plan!

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