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The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

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  • #16
    Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

    Originally posted by Gold star View Post
    what does maintained mean ? I've seen closed back valve combos ..that cant be a good thing .
    Proper bias set point checked, tube sockets cleaned, and good working tubes so the amp doesn't draw more current and run hotter than designed.

    I mean, sure there are manufacturers and models out there where heat is a problem because the design is poor -but do the homework -the bad ones are known -There are models and derivative designs out there without issue for 70 years

    Also, most tube electronics were enclosed with some basic vent ports back pre 1960s -it wasn't an unnatural thing, guitar amps aren't unusual -people have just used them generally longer than most diagnostic and transmission tube equipment.
    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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    • #17
      Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

      Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
      Proper bias set point checked, tube sockets cleaned, and good working tubes so the amp doesn't draw more current and run hotter than designed.

      I mean, sure there are manufacturers and models out there where heat is a problem because the design is poor -but do the homework -the bad ones are known -There are models and derivative designs out there without issue for 70 years

      Also, most tube electronics were enclosed with some basic vent ports back pre 1960s -it wasn't an unnatural thing, guitar amps aren't unusual -people have just used them generally longer than most diagnostic and transmission tube equipment.
      Isn't that a bit contradictory? Saying first it's not a problem, then acknowledging there is a problem with many amps with that design?
      "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
      Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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      • #18
        Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

        Originally posted by Jacew View Post
        Isn't that a bit contradictory? Saying first it's not a problem, then acknowledging there is a problem with many amps with that design?
        No, i didn't use the word "many" -thats more you twisting it, and in every single industry there are a portion of poorer designed or made products -that's just the bell curve and common sense.

        Just buy quality, do your homework and maintain it correctly and you are fine -this is not an issue to worry about
        “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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        • #19
          Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

          Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
          No, i didn't use the word "many" -thats more you twisting it, and in every single industry there are a portion of poorer designed or made products -that's just the bell curve and common sense.

          Just buy quality, do your homework and maintain it correctly and you are fine -this is not an issue to worry about
          I was thinking it from engineering viewpoint. Yea it can be made to work with design, but simpler it is and less clever design it requires, more robust it will likely to be. Especially if made cheap.

          Flipping chassis so tubes don't direct heat to other components seems simple enough, that it seems poorer design to begin with. But there may he reasons to do that, and well engineered shouldn't cause any trouble so it's not a bad thing automatically.
          "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
          Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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          • #20
            Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

            Originally posted by Jacew View Post
            I was thinking it from engineering viewpoint. Yea it can be made to work with design, but simpler it is and less clever design it requires, more robust it will likely to be. Especially if made cheap.

            Flipping chassis so tubes don't direct heat to other components seems simple enough, that it seems poorer design to begin with. But there may he reasons to do that, and well engineered shouldn't cause any trouble so it's not a bad thing automatically.
            Well, Marshall was one of if not the first high gain amp -so maybe it makes sense that they were learned this made their amps dissipate heat better plus they wanted the weight in the bottom because they were designing stacks in a tall narrow head early on.

            But I firmly believe that the oscillation from a fan that is hard coupled to the chassis will cause issues with solder joints before heat on the components will on a well designed amp -I have upside down Fenders that have the original components from 60 years ago.

            I don't think 100plus watt 6550 amps have a choice thought -gotta have a fan.

            Fender's original inverted arrangement comes from the desire for the controls to be on the top or angled and making more room from the speaker or enabling a smaller overall cabinet - I don't think heat was a concern in their original designs.

            I've never had a heat problem though -except solid state amps ironically, but I buy quality proven amps, keep my valve amps dialed and keep the amps ventilated (not against the wall).
            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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            • #21
              Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

              Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
              Well, Marshall was one of if not the first high gain amp -so maybe it makes sense that they were learned this made their amps dissipate heat better plus they wanted the weight in the bottom because they were designing stacks in a tall narrow head early on.

              But I firmly believe that the oscillation from a fan that is hard coupled to the chassis will cause issues with solder joints before heat on the components will on a well designed amp -I have upside down Fenders that have the original components from 60 years ago.

              I don't think 100plus watt 6550 amps have a choice thought -gotta have a fan.

              Fender's original inverted arrangement comes from the desire for the controls to be on the top or angled and making more room from the speaker or enabling a smaller overall cabinet - I don't think heat was a concern in their original designs.

              I've never had a heat problem though -except solid state amps ironically, but I buy quality proven amps, keep my valve amps dialed and keep the amps ventilated (not against the wall).
              Yes. Solid states are much more prone to the problems. Tubes are very good at dissipating excess heat compared to those, needing huge extra cooling systems to work.

              Tube amp combos really need to have back open enough for ventilation and can havepossible issues with vibration. I prefer heads partially because of that. (Just never found to really like open back cab in terms of tone anyway)
              "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
              Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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              • #22
                Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                Yes. Solid states are much more prone to the problems. Tubes are very good at dissipating excess heat compared to those, needing huge extra cooling systems to work.

                Tube amp combos really need to have back open enough for ventilation and can have possible issues with vibration. I prefer heads partially because of that. (Just never found to really like open back cab in terms of tone anyway)
                I like many open back models for clean tones, always prefer closed for cleanish to dirty typically.

                I had a Peavey Roadmaster head with a fan in the late 80s that sounded like a damn jet winding up.

                My Marshall JCM 800 50W 2204 was loaded with 6550s and I would push it really hard back then -probably my favorite high gain amp I've ever owned -and with 6550s instead of EL34s it would get the kind of hot that the OP/TS is talking about, but it was never an issue -even after a 2 hour gig
                “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                • #23
                  Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                  The fan in my Dell laptop is more annoying than the fan in my triple.
                  Mesa did it well at least. It's probably as small as they could get away with and still meet the safety standard.
                  I feel no vibrations at all through the chasis or parts. Still though I'd rather be without it, just one more thing to collect dust.

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                  • #24
                    Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                    Originally posted by dave74 View Post
                    The fan in my Dell laptop is more annoying than the fan in my triple.
                    Mesa did it well at least. It's probably as small as they could get away with and still meet the safety standard.
                    I feel no vibrations at all through the chasis or parts. Still though I'd rather be without it, just one more thing to collect dust.
                    Yeah, if there's any amp with a fan that hasn't bothered me it's the Mesas.
                    “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                    • #25
                      Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                      How do you even hear the fan when playing? Or does the fan motor cause noise in tube amp?
                      "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                      Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                        Only time it bugs me is when I stop playing and try to hear if that was someone banging on the door downstairs or the woman/kid yelling for me to "turn it down!".

                        It's usually neither, nor do I usually care anyway lol.

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                        • #27
                          Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                          Non-issue. My 66 year old 5C3 Deluxe agrees.

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                          • #28
                            The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                            I have a JTM45 with tubes up, a Traynor with tubes down, a VOX with tubes sideways I believe? Or maybe they’re down (can’t see inside very well), and a ‘57 Twin RI and a SuperReverb with tubes down. I’ve run them all for hours and hours in the studio and never experienced any parts failures.

                            The only amp that’s a problem is the VOX. It’s so noisy they actually had to document the noise problem in the manual saying “it’s normal”, and they even added a switch to change how it operates to make it ‘less noisy’. That is a design flaw to me.

                            But when you think about it, they are consumer items. They are made to a price point. They don’t expect them to last forever. They want you to buy it, use it, then buy a newer model.

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                            • #29
                              Re: The right way up for Tubes in an amp chassis..

                              I have to say, Mesa did great with their fan. Mine has the tubes facing down, with the heat rising. The fan is on, but even after 20+ years, it is silent, and you can't hear that thing at all.
                              Administrator of the SDUGF

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