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adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

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  • #16
    Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

    Originally posted by ericcomposer72 View Post
    *less than 25.5
    So is 24.9" (Martin), and 24.75" (Gibson), 24.5" (PRS Santana), 24" (Jaguar), etc.

    Accuracy is not a bad thing.

    But I get your point...you want a neck with a shorter scale than the typical Fender 25.5". Most PRSs are 25" so that will suit your taste unless you choose the Santana which is 24.5", even shorter than Gibson.

    I've played some of the PRS SE Standards, even signature models, and was extremely unimpressed with their playability and quality. Yes the price seems reasonable at $500, but you'll need to also spend over $100 to have a good fret job and setup done and still end up with a so-so guitar. And if you buy it, don't like it, never play it, buy something better...then that $500 was just flushed down the toilet. I would take that $500 and apply it to a better quality instrument. You'll spend less in the long run and be much happier playing a better instrument. I haven't played the SE Custom 24, but I suspect that the quality will be much better for less than $200 more than you'll end up spending on the SE Standard.
    Last edited by GuitarDoc; 03-21-2020, 09:16 AM.
    Originally Posted by IanBallard
    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

      Originally posted by ericcomposer72 View Post
      Looking at the SE Standard 24. Seems to fit my budget, and I like the slightly smaller scale length (25") with 24 frets.
      Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post
      So is 24.9" (Martin), and 24.75" (Gibson), 24.5" (PRS Santana), 24" (Jaguar), etc.

      Accuracy is not a bad thing.

      But I get your point...you want a neck with a shorter scale than the typical Fender 25.5". Most PRSs are 25" so that will suit your taste unless you choose the Santana which is 24.5", even shorter than Gibson.

      I've played some of the PRS SE Standards, even signature models, and was extremely unimpressed with their playability and quality. Yes the price seems reasonable at $500, but you'll need to also spend over $100 to have a good fret job and setup done and still end up with a so-so guitar. And if you buy it, don't like it, never play it, buy something better...then that $500 was just flushed down the toilet. I would take that $500 and apply it to a better quality instrument. You'll spend less in the long run and be much happier playing a better instrument. I haven't played the SE Custom 24, but I suspect that the quality will be much better for less than $200 more than you'll end up spending on the SE Standard.
      EricComposer72,

      That's some good input from GuitarDoc since its based on him having actually played one of the SE Standards.

      You could alleviate any concerns that input raises by ideally playing one yourself in a store before you purchase, or next best if that is not possible, buying one from a store that has a solid Return policy so you can get all your money back (minus the cost of Return shipping, naturally) if you don't like how it plays.
      Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

        Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post
        So is 24.9" (Martin), and 24.75" (Gibson), 24.5" (PRS Santana), 24" (Jaguar), etc.

        Accuracy is not a bad thing.

        But I get your point...you want a neck with a shorter scale than the typical Fender 25.5". Most PRSs are 25" so that will suit your taste unless you choose the Santana which is 24.5", even shorter than Gibson.

        I've played some of the PRS SE Standards, even signature models, and was extremely unimpressed with their playability and quality. Yes the price seems reasonable at $500, but you'll need to also spend over $100 to have a good fret job and setup done and still end up with a so-so guitar. And if you buy it, don't like it, never play it, buy something better...then that $500 was just flushed down the toilet. I would take that $500 and apply it to a better quality instrument. You'll spend less in the long run and be much happier playing a better instrument. I haven't played the SE Custom 24, but I suspect that the quality will be much better for less than $200 more than you'll end up spending on the SE Standard.
        Just to recap, I'm looking for a less than 25.5" scale length guitar with 24 frets, 2 humbuckers, and in the similar price-range of a PRS SE Standard. I should also add, I'm looking for a more "traditional" looking guitar- strat/LP/PRS is in line (not SG/jaguar shape). Your point about investing the extra couple hundred $'s in a PRS SE Custon is well taken.

        Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
        EricComposer72,

        That's some good input from GuitarDoc since its based on him having actually played one of the SE Standards.

        You could alleviate any concerns that input raises by ideally playing one yourself in a store before you purchase, or next best if that is not possible, buying one from a store that has a solid Return policy so you can get all your money back (minus the cost of Return shipping, naturally) if you don't like how it plays.
        Due to the current situation in NYC, I'm seriously considering going the online-shopping route, with a return policy, and just eating the shipping costs I deem that model a dud. The PRS SE Custom is intriguing, though.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

          update: I may be able to get my hands on a Carvin DC 200 (my father owns it, doens't play it much). I have a DC 727 and love it.

          His has two Seymour Duncan HB's, a 3-way switch, and two coil-split (2-position) switches.

          If I do end up in possession of this guitar, perhaps I would swap the 3-way switch with this 6-way switch:



          I'm under the impression that replacing a 3-way switch with a 5-way switch would involve routing.


          Question: could I use this 6-way switch, as well as the coil-split switches, to have an overall configuration where I can isolate any coil on the guitar?

          For example:

          6-way switch configuration: a) Bridge HB full - both HB's parallel - Neck HB full; b) Bridge HB inner coil - both HB inner coils in parallel - Neck HB inner coil

          Coil-split switches configuration: a) Bridge HB full - Bridge HB outer coil; b) Neck HB full - Neck HB outer coil

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

            Originally posted by ericcomposer72 View Post
            update: I may be able to get my hands on a Carvin DC 200 (my father owns it, doens't play it much). I have a DC 727 and love it.

            His has two Seymour Duncan HB's, a 3-way switch, and two coil-split (2-position) switches.

            If I do end up in possession of this guitar, perhaps I would swap the 3-way switch with this 6-way switch:



            I'm under the impression that replacing a 3-way switch with a 5-way switch would involve routing.


            Question: could I use this 6-way switch, as well as the coil-split switches, to have an overall configuration where I can isolate any coil on the guitar?

            For example:

            6-way switch configuration: a) Bridge HB full - both HB's parallel - Neck HB full; b) Bridge HB inner coil - both HB inner coils in parallel - Neck HB inner coil

            Coil-split switches configuration: a) Bridge HB full - Bridge HB outer coil; b) Neck HB full - Neck HB outer coil

            Regarding routing required to fit in a 6 position Freeway switch: no, not that i am aware of. Could you elaborate more on what you read or heard that suggested that?

            Regarding the pickup combinations you listed at the end of your last post: you could get all of those with the existing 3 way switch and 2 switches that are currently stock in the DC200 if they were rewired. Are you interested in doing that or you definitely want to use the Freeway instead? BTW, I am not sure if the Freeway could support all that you identified... either another forum member might be able to confirm or you could email the Freeway folks and ask.
            Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 04-12-2020, 10:46 PM.
            Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

              Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
              Regarding routing required to fit in a 6 position Freeway switch: no, not that i am aware of. Could you elaborate more on what you read or heard that suggested that?

              It's the 5 position switch that I wrote I thought would require routing

              Regarding the pickup combinations you listed at the end of your last post: you could get all of those with the existing 3 way switch and 2 switches that are currently stock in the DC727 if they were rewired. Are you interested in doing that or you definitely want to use the Freeway instead? BTW, I am not sure if the Freeway could support all that you identified... either another forum member might be able to confirm or you could email the Freeway folks and ask.
              Now that you mention it, using the existing switches probably makes the most sense. And come to think of it, I really have no use for both HB's in parallel, so would this work?

              3-way switch: Bridge HB full / inner coils of Bridge and Neck in parallel / Neck HB full

              2-way switch (a): Bridge HB full / Bridge outer coil only

              2-way switch (b): Neck HB full / Neck outer coil only

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                Originally posted by ericcomposer72 View Post
                Now that you mention it, using the existing switches probably makes the most sense. And come to think of it, I really have no use for both HB's in parallel, so would this work?

                3-way switch: Bridge HB full / inner coils of Bridge and Neck in parallel / Neck HB full

                2-way switch (a): Bridge HB full / Bridge outer coil only

                2-way switch (b): Neck HB full / Neck outer coil only
                Oops, yes i reread your earlier post and see now that you were talking about a 5 way switch, not the 6 way. And yes, to fit a 5 way switch into a guitar that has a 3 way toggle switch would require some cutting.



                Regarding the pickup combinations you last requested:
                A 3 way toggle switch is limited in its capabilities, and so does not support autosplitting of both humbuckers in Position 2 like you requested above.

                Here is how to get very close to what you requested with the 3 way toggle and the 2 switches you have:

                Scenario A:

                1 switch *per humbucker* to turn coilsplitting on or off. With this scenario you only get 1 choice per humbucker of which coil is active during coilsplit mode.

                Scenario B (my recommendation):

                Switch #1 turns coilspliting on or off *for both*humbuckers. Switch #2 changes whether the active coils in coilsplit mode are the two inner coils or the two outer coils. Switch #2 has no effect when Switch #1 is not in coilsplit mode.

                Another thing i want to point out: *unless* one of the two humbuckers is Reverse Wired & Reverse Polarity (RWRP) , then the two "like" coils of each pickup (i.e. the two inners and the two outers) will have the same magnetic polarity. When the two are combined in Position 2, they will not be hum-canceling because of this (hum-canceling requires two coils of opposite magnetic polarity and opposite wind direction). The easiest solution to this is to split to the inner coil on one of the pickups and the outer on the other pickup. You would still be able to achieve "both inner coils" and "both outer coils" by physically rotating one of the pickups in its humbucker mounting ring 180°. You just need to be ok with the aesthetic factor that that pickup (if it has no cover) looks like it is installed backwards.

                I can find online or draw a diagram for whichever way you want to proceed, just let me know.
                Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 04-13-2020, 05:07 PM.
                Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                  Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                  Oops, yes i reread your earlier post and see now that you were talking about a 5 way switch, not the 6 way. And yes, to fit a 5 way switch into a guitar that has a 3 way toggle switch would require some cutting.



                  Regarding the pickup combinations you last requested:
                  A 3 way toggle switch is limited in its capabilities, and so does not support autosplitting of both humbuckers in Position 2 like you requested above.

                  Here is how to get very close to what you requested with the 3 way toggle and the 2 switches you have:

                  Scenario A:

                  1 switch *per humbucker* to turn coilsplitting on or off. With this scenario you only get 1 choice per humbucker of which coil is active during coilsplit mode.

                  Scenario B (my recommendation):

                  Switch #1 turns coilspliting on or off *for both*humbuckers. Switch #2 changes whether the active coils in coilsplit mode are the two inner coils or the two outer coils. Switch #2 has no effect when Switch #1 is not in coilsplit mode.


                  Another thing i want to point out: *unless* one of the two humbuckers is Reverse Wired & Reverse Polarity (RWRP) , then the two "like" coils of each pickup (i.e. the two inners and the two outers) will have the same magnetic polarity. When the two are combined in Position 2, they will not be hum-canceling because of this (hum-canceling requires two coils of opposite magnetic polarity and opposite sind direction). The easiest solution to this is to split to the inner coil on one of the pickups and the outer on the other pickup. You would still be able to achieve "both inner coils" and "both outer coils" by physically rotating one of the pickups in its humbucker mounting ring 180°. You just need to be ok with the aesthetic factor that that pickup (if it has no cover) looks like it is installed backwards.

                  I can find online or draw a diagram for whichever way you want to proceed, just let me know.
                  I love this recommendation, and it seems like I'd be able to get everything and more. Thanks! Now, it all depends on when I can get my hands on this guitar. I'll post when I do. Very excited.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                    Originally posted by ericcomposer72 View Post
                    I love this recommendation, and it seems like I'd be able to get everything and more. Thanks! Now, it all depends on when I can get my hands on this guitar. I'll post when I do. Very excited.
                    Cool. I am subscribed to this thread, so I will get an alert whenever you post again to say you got the guitar.

                    In the meantime, I can start looking around for a diagram -or creating one if none exists. I just need to know how many volume controls are on the guitar, how many tone controls, and if those switches are push-pull pots or outright double throw switches (?)

                    [Edit: for now, i will assume neither of the pickups are RWRP. You said they were Seymour Duncan humbuckers, right?
                    Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                      Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                      Cool. I am subscribed to this thread, so I will get an alert whenever you post again to say you got the guitar.

                      In the meantime, I can start looking around for a diagram -or creating one if none exists. I just need to know how many volume controls are on the guitar, how many tone controls, and if those switches are push-pull pots or outright double throw switches (?)

                      [Edit: for now, i will assume neither of the pickups are RWRP. You said they were Seymour Duncan humbuckers, right?
                      So this is a diagram I created - based on a Prails diagram I found in the Seymour Duncan website. I updated it so that in both splitcoil modes, one inner coil is active and one outer is active - to provide hum-canceling in Position 2.

                      We can tweak this further, it's just a place to start from. Final version will be based on how many volume controls, tone controls, etc. your Carvin DC200 has.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                        Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                        So this is a diagram I created - based on a Prails diagram I found in the Seymour Duncan website. I updated it so that in both splitcoil modes, one inner coil is active and one outer is active - to provide hum-canceling in Position 2.

                        We can tweak this further, it's just a place to start from. Final version will be based on how many volume controls, tone controls, etc. your Carvin DC200 has.

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]104187[/ATTACH]
                        Eric,

                        I just spotted that the original diagram has an error where splitcoil mode is active in the Bridge push-pull down position instead of the up position. Remind me to corrext for that when we resume on this project.
                        Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 04-13-2020, 11:59 PM.
                        Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                          Mincer,

                          Just an FYI for that upcoming review of the wiring diagrams on the site - this one has a few issues.

                          - The splitcoil mode is advertised as being active in the up position of the bridge push-pull, but it is wired so that splitcoil mode is active in the down position.

                          - The hot wire from each pickup (black) is wired to the wrong volume control (bridge pup is wired to the Neck volume control, and vice versa).

                          - the Neck volume push-pull control is described as the "tone" push-pull in a few spots in the labeling.

                          - the label at the very top that is intended to state that the Neck push-pull is active only when the Bridge push-pull is up, is missing "Bridge" specifier. It just says "volume push-pull". Both push-pulls are volume controls, so the specifier is needed.

                          Click image for larger version

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Views:	1
Size:	64.9 KB
ID:	5818742
                          Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                            It seems like one of the freeway switches would be a lot more efficient than multiple switches and push-pull pots.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                              Originally posted by chadd View Post
                              It seems like one of the freeway switches would be a lot more efficient than multiple switches and push-pull pots.
                              The OP wants each pickup available as a full humbucker, split to inner coil, and split to outer coil. Even with Freeway, one switch would still be required.

                              Add to the mix, that the guitar he plans to mod, already has two switches installed.
                              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: adding 5-way selector to H-H PRS? Is this config possible?

                                Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                                Mincer,

                                Just an FYI for that upcoming review of the wiring diagrams on the site - this one has a few issues.

                                - The splitcoil mode is advertised as being active in the up position of the bridge push-pull, but it is wired so that splitcoil mode is active in the down position.

                                - The hot wire from each pickup (black) is wired to the wrong volume control (bridge pup is wired to the Neck volume control, and vice versa).

                                - the Neck volume push-pull control is described as the "tone" push-pull in a few spots in the labeling.

                                - the label at the very top that is intended to state that the Neck push-pull is active only when the Bridge push-pull is up, is missing "Bridge" specifier. It just says "volume push-pull". Both push-pulls are volume controls, so the specifier is needed.

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]104192[/ATTACH]
                                I will make a sticky thread today for this. Thank you for looking it over.
                                Administrator of the SDUGF

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