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Thread: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

  1. #1
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    Default Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Hi all,

    I recently got a lightly used second hand Emi Tonker shipped to me in the UK from the States, and I have paired it with a brand new one. The second hand one doesn't seem to have the same output as the new one, and the cone seems to have more resistance when I apply a little pressure with my fingertips, compared to the new model I have. Are these the damning symptoms of a frozen speaker? If so, I fear I'm going to have to take it up with the seller and get it re-coned.

    Is there a definitive way to tell if a speaker is frozen? Can I still use the speaker or will this damage it further/harm my amp?
    Thanks in advance guys.

  2. #2
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    speakers have a "break in"

    plug in the radio and let let it "exercise" for about 6-10 hours

    this is common for guitar speakers

    or any speaker for that matter

    like strings ... See?
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    speakers have a "break in"
    I know speakers need breaking in, but it's the second hand speaker that concerns me, which obviously should already have been broken in. The second hand Tonker's cone is much stiffer to the touch with little give compared to the new Tonker I've got, and it seems a little quieter. Surely the new one isn't going to break in and loose volume to match the broken in second hand one, I know that much right?

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    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    oh well I mis-read your post altogether

    you are quite right
    not sure what makes them do that

    but most assuredly contact the seller
    EHD
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    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    you know I just happen to have some old and new speakers sitting behind me here at the desk

    naw

    both mine seem to work just fine

    as I press the cone I can see the yellow part in back move just a bit
    the older one crackled a bit but moved about the same

    just a sec and Ill post images








    Last edited by ehdwuld; 03-20-2020 at 04:49 PM.
    EHD
    Just here surfing Guitar Pron
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    Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
    Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
    Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
    Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
    GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    I mis-read your post altogether
    No worried, I know it's confusing referring to a new speaker and a second hand one - both equally newly in my possession.

    Thanks ehdwuld, yeah I should pull the speakers out the cab for a closer look. It's a little tricky to diagnose because they're in a vertical 212 and all I can do for the moment is put my ear right in one speaker while playing a note, and then do the same with the other speaker. I might hook up one speaker at a time and use a looper to record a clip of each speaker separately to compare. Obviously it's very hard to hear them independently when they're wired together. But the differences I can hear plus the stiff-feeling cone does make me think there's an issue.

  7. #7
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    ohh

    wait

    yeah if its in a vertical cab you may hear the one closer to your head

    the reason I have two in the floor here
    is I was swapping speakers in my two 1x12 cabs
    to match the ohms in both cabs
    so I could run both in that manner
    and I could totally, only hear the one on the top of the stack
    I couldnt hear the one on bottom at all

    flip the cab over see if it still is the second one
    EHD
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  8. #8
    Mojo's Minions eclecticsynergy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    If the cone moves and you don't hear a rushing/rubbing sound when you move it by hand, the speaker isn't frozen.

    You're sure they're both the same impedance, right? Just ruling out the possibility - one of Ehdwuld's is 16Ω and the other is 8Ω; that's why he was switching speakers around.
    .
    "My hovercraft is full of eels."

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  9. #9
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Well the two pictured are 16 ohm Celestian and an 8 ohm EHX

    I was moving the 8 ohm out to get both 16 ohm for my dual setup

    But yeah, different impedance would do that as well
    EHD
    Just here surfing Guitar Pron
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    Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
    Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
    Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
    GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    if its in a vertical cab you may hear the one closer to your head
    No I was literally putting my ear right inside each cone to listen, and the second hand one that I'm worried about does seem quieter.

    eclecticsynergy, the cone barely moves compared to the other version I have here. With the new speaker I have (which isn't damaged) I can apply some pressure to the cone and I can see the cone move back and forth looking at the suspension/surround part at the edge of the cone. When I do the same with the speaker I'm concerned about, the surround doesn't move at all, and the only movement seems to come from the give in the paper cone itself. I feel like I'm starting to answer my own question.

    I left out this information initially because I didn't want it to influence you guys' responses, but the speaker was not packaged well considering it was being shipped from the States to here in the UK. The sender didn't use an outer box, he just put the speaker in a USPS box (no packing material underneath the magnet at all) and put a piece of cardboard in front of the cone with some bubblewrap on the other side. Unsurprisingly, the box didn't arrive to me in the best condition, and the piece of cardboard looks like it's deformed and rubbed against the suspension leaving some marks.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Well, the evidence is damning. I used a looper to play some audio with the bad speaker mic'd, and then again with the good speaker mic'd, and the difference in the waveform alone says a lot. (I set the gain for recording the bad speaker, and then recorded the good speaker without adjusting the input gain)
    The audio itself is the nail in the coffin for sure. The speakers sound totally different - the good one obviously sounds fine, but the bad one has noo low end what so ever and sounds nasty af.

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  12. #12
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    as far as packaging goes
    the Celestian you see pictured above came across the country from Arizona, thanks Steve
    It was packaged the same way
    the boxes were totaled by the time they arrived but both speakers work just fine
    I'm not sure how cost effective it is getting a used speaker shipped from the US is

    seems some nice Local companies over there may have been a better choice
    but yeah if you think there is something wrong with it
    some images may help

    for all we know it may have a small primate hanging on one side that you haven't mentioned yet
    EHD
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    Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdwuld View Post
    the Celestian you see pictured above came across the country
    The seller said he's shipped speakers domestically, packaged the same way without issues, but there's no way that was appropriate for overseas shipping. Visually there isn't too much wrong with the speaker but oh my word if you could hear the audio I recorded of the good Tonker and the bad Tonker, it's clearly totally defective. Look at the differences in those two waveforms - they were recorded with the same input gain, mic'd identically with the same piece of audio being played.

  14. #14
    Mojo's Minions Ascension's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do I have a "Frozen" Speaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by DenDenDen View Post
    No I was literally putting my ear right inside each cone to listen, and the second hand one that I'm worried about does seem quieter.

    eclecticsynergy, the cone barely moves compared to the other version I have here. With the new speaker I have (which isn't damaged) I can apply some pressure to the cone and I can see the cone move back and forth looking at the suspension/surround part at the edge of the cone. When I do the same with the speaker I'm concerned about, the surround doesn't move at all, and the only movement seems to come from the give in the paper cone itself. I feel like I'm starting to answer my own question.

    I left out this information initially because I didn't want it to influence you guys' responses, but the speaker was not packaged well considering it was being shipped from the States to here in the UK. The sender didn't use an outer box, he just put the speaker in a USPS box (no packing material underneath the magnet at all) and put a piece of cardboard in front of the cone with some bubblewrap on the other side. Unsurprisingly, the box didn't arrive to me in the best condition, and the piece of cardboard looks like it's deformed and rubbed against the suspension leaving some marks.
    Suspect the issue is the speaker took a side lick in transport and knocked the voice coil out of alignment. Had this happen a couple times. Once when a bone head with DHL walked up to my back porch and threw a new speaker over the rail. Was in the den and heard a WHUMP when it hit the porch. Knocked the coil out of alignment and did exactly what you are describing. If the speaker was poorly packed in particular this is likely what you are dealing with.
    Last edited by Ascension; 04-01-2020 at 07:47 PM.
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