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  • attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

    For quite some time I've been pondering the notion of buying a smaller amp that would give me similar tone and range as my Fender Deluxe Reverb. 22 watts may not seem like a lot of punch for some but it's a wall shaker in my house, plus my 62 year old ears need a break now and then. I'd like to maintain a big-ger sound but at lower volumes. Being primarily a tube guy I've thought about a Blues Jr, or a Princeton, but am not really wanting to spend that kind of money on another amp right now. I've read and heard a lot of intriguing words about the Boss Katana series with power adjustable capabilities, and several modeling options.
    I thought I'd open it up to you folks for your input. Different brands? Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

    I've had a deluxe reverb reissue and supersonic 22 which is deluxe reverb basically on one channel and dirty channel on other...

    I have a Princeton Reverb the custom '68 one now and I gotta say it's a little warmer and smoother at low volumes and sounds plenty tubey in my house but to get dirt without letting all the neighbors hear, I still use dirt pedals.
    But I love it and maybe you can find a deal on it cuz I would take it over a blues Jr hands down

    If you can't swing a PRRI and I get that, try the super champ xD or X2. They are a speaker swap away from being a poor man's Princeton reverb. They are boxier in sound as they have a small cab, but if you're not cranking it you'll probably not notice

    For me a Princeton is that instant blackfacey tone in a smaller package that has a little more warmth and less deep lows and high highs because of the inefficient phase inverter and output transformer and 10" speaker but you can't NOT dial in a decent tone on it, imo.

    The mustang 25 is probably a good bet too. The fender amp models on their mustang stuff is pretty decent but man...


    I would keep your amp, get a Princeton, or maybe look at vibro champs from the 70s they have a great fender tone that sounds like Brown Sugar when your turn it up. But your amp is a good one that I think sounds good for home use as long as it's not for dirt without ear protection, I would say most things you're looking at are in a way trading down in a big way
    Good modelers sounds good to me but the cheap ones, I'd rather have a DRRI and pedal or two any day
    One or two really convincing tones are worth a bucket of kinda convincing tones... Depends on how picky you are I guess! Ymmv

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    • #3
      Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

      Originally posted by midnite_man View Post
      For quite some time I've been pondering the notion of buying a smaller amp that would give me similar tone and range as my Fender Deluxe Reverb. 22 watts may not seem like a lot of punch for some but it's a wall shaker in my house, plus my 62 year old ears need a break now and then. I'd like to maintain a big-ger sound but at lower volumes. Being primarily a tube guy I've thought about a Blues Jr, or a Princeton, but am not really wanting to spend that kind of money on another amp right now. I've read and heard a lot of intriguing words about the Boss Katana series with power adjustable capabilities, and several modeling options.
      I thought I'd open it up to you folks for your input. Different brands? Thanks!
      Going from 22 to 12/15 watts is a waste of money. If you really want a reduction in volume, a 10x decrease is in order.

      I've gone from a DSL100, to a 2525H, down to a DSL1HR and a 4x10 cab. I absolutely love the last setup for heavy thrash metal from the 80s.

      I try to avoid attenuators, but in your case it may make sense.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

        [I dearly love my DRRI and have been playing it in stereo with a 60 watt 2x12 Blues Deville, but can't crank it up much past 2 but I like the tone and sound. I'll probably run the DR with whatever I end up buying. I was looking at the Princeton or a Champ, but not wanting to spend a bunch.
        Appreciate your thoughts!
        QUOTE=FuseG4;4404025]I've had a deluxe reverb reissue and supersonic 22 which is deluxe reverb basically on one channel and dirty channel on other...

        I have a Princeton Reverb the custom '68 one now and I gotta say it's a little warmer and smoother at low volumes and sounds plenty tubey in my house but to get dirt without letting all the neighbors hear, I still use dirt pedals.
        But I love it and maybe you can find a deal on it cuz I would take it over a blues Jr hands down

        If you can't swing a PRRI and I get that, try the super champ xD or X2. They are a speaker swap away from being a poor man's Princeton reverb. They are boxier in sound as they have a small cab, but if you're not cranking it you'll probably not notice

        For me a Princeton is that instant blackfacey tone in a smaller package that has a little more warmth and less deep lows and high highs because of the inefficient phase inverter and output transformer and 10" speaker but you can't NOT dial in a decent tone on it, imo.

        The mustang 25 is probably a good bet too. The fender amp models on their mustang stuff is pretty decent but man...


        I would keep your amp, get a Princeton, or maybe look at vibro champs from the 70s they have a great fender tone that sounds like Brown Sugar when your turn it up. But your amp is a good one that I think sounds good for home use as long as it's not for dirt without ear protection, I would say most things you're looking at are in a way trading down in a big way
        Good modelers sounds good to me but the cheap ones, I'd rather have a DRRI and pedal or two any day
        One or two really convincing tones are worth a bucket of kinda convincing tones... Depends on how picky you are I guess! Ymmv[/QUOTE]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

          Originally posted by DonP View Post
          Going from 22 to 12/15 watts is a waste of money. If you really want a reduction in volume, a 10x decrease is in order.

          I've gone from a DSL100, to a 2525H, down to a DSL1HR and a 4x10 cab. I absolutely love the last setup for heavy thrash metal from the 80s.

          I try to avoid attenuators, but in your case it may make sense.
          I've also thought about an attenuator, the tone and sonics I could achieve by being able to power up the tubes like they should be (at least up to 4) might end up with something special for me..
          Not a bad idea..
          Last edited by midnite_man; 03-22-2020, 08:32 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

            If just the volume is your concern, pick up Catalinbread Formula 55

            You get the tones on low volume, and can crank up to similar tones easily without switching amps or anything. I have 5f6 and it sounds really good on a wide range of palette you except.
            "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
            Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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            • #7
              Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

              the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is a Fender Modeling version of your favorite amp

              It doesn't sound exactly like your Deluxe Reverb, but it is very close
              and it has an adjustable power switch that brings the volume down without changing the tone

              it seems more along the line of exactly what you are asking for
              EHD
              Just here surfing Guitar Pron
              RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
              SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
              Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
              Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
              Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
              Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
              GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                In my supersonic I had one of those Eminence speakers that has an attenuator built in and adjustable via knob on back of speaker

                Took off a little treble and low lows but let me run at 3-4 on the volume instead of 2
                I know what you mean that it's a loud amp for home on 2

                Weber make good attenuators that are not expensive
                But you get an attenuator get a good one, the simple non-reactive-load ones will probably make you wish you just went with a modeling amp

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                  I was looking at the PS1 Bugera attenuator
                  But I think Clint55 got one and said it didn't sound good

                  my Bugera G5 head has a attenuator switch on back
                  lets me go from 5 to 1 to .1 watt

                  the 20 watt Bugera head has a similar switch

                  like I said above
                  the Tone Master does too
                  EHD
                  Just here surfing Guitar Pron
                  RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
                  SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
                  Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
                  Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
                  Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
                  Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
                  GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                    Originally posted by ehdwuld View Post
                    the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is a Fender Modeling version of your favorite amp

                    It doesn't sound exactly like your Deluxe Reverb, but it is very close
                    and it has an adjustable power switch that brings the volume down without changing the tone

                    it seems more along the line of exactly what you are asking for
                    This is just what I thought of, as well. It gets great reviews and to me, sounds no different than 2 different tube Deluxes. Fender dedicated the entire processor for just 1 model. The other good news is that it is about 25 lbs They also make a Tone Master Twin that is around 33lbs.
                    Administrator of the SDUGF

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                      last week I watched several videos on those amps

                      I remember they came up in a couple of threads as well last week

                      In the videos I watched

                      the larger cab made made them sound a bit different in the room
                      but the miked up YouTube sound was just a bit different in each video
                      not bad, nothing you couldn't dial out with the knobs

                      I think each one had the the knobs set exactly the same for comparison

                      IRL no one does that
                      EHD
                      Just here surfing Guitar Pron
                      RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
                      SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
                      Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
                      Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
                      Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
                      Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
                      GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                        Yeah, I read that the knobs won't have the same values. But if you do it by ear, it is a lot closer.
                        Administrator of the SDUGF

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                          Originally posted by midnite_man View Post
                          For quite some time I've been pondering the notion of buying a smaller amp that would give me similar tone and range as my Fender Deluxe Reverb. 22 watts may not seem like a lot of punch for some but it's a wall shaker in my house, plus my 62 year old ears need a break now and then. I'd like to maintain a big-ger sound but at lower volumes. Being primarily a tube guy I've thought about a Blues Jr, or a Princeton, but am not really wanting to spend that kind of money on another amp right now. I've read and heard a lot of intriguing words about the Boss Katana series with power adjustable capabilities, and several modeling options.
                          I thought I'd open it up to you folks for your input. Different brands? Thanks!
                          so if your looking for real tube tone at low volume the problem is that most tube amps dont really hit the tubes till the volume is pushed to at least 3 or above. that means the smaller watt blues Jr is still loud and if your looking for a real tube sounding practive amp then you need somthing to sound good with tubes between 1 and 4 on the volume. Fender solves this with the super champ x2. It actually sounds good from 1 to 5 on the volume and it has built in Fx. its got a 10nch speaker that most people upgrade with a celestion and it uses the 6v6 tube so it has a smooth nice midrange. its a great practice amp and vacation amp and with the built in FX you dont have to haul around a crap ton of pedals and cords just to play somthing in the T.V room. The blues Jr sounds good when it opens up though. it sounds great around 3.5 to 8 on the volume. it mushes up higher then that but I had mine and loved it but it became kinda useless after I got the champ x2 becouse the champ sounded good at low volume and I have a EVH LBX2 that sounds good in that 15 watt range that I play through a 2x12 cab. at that point the blues Jr just sat. you can use a solid state Fender amp with FX. They sound ok at low volume but lack the real tube sound and response. Dont sell your larger Fender amp. keep it for different occasions or have Kruse Kontrol Amplification mod it with power scaleing so it can be played at low practice volume or flip the power scale switch in the back to adjust it for higher club volume again. Thats another option all together. He has tone samples on his web sight. his power scaleing levels switch is super usefull for bigger amps and makes them more managable by far
                          Last edited by philthis; 03-23-2020, 01:06 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                            Originally posted by philthis View Post
                            so if your looking for real tube tone at low volume the problem is that most tube amps dont really hit the tubes till the volume is pushed to at least 3 or above. that means the smaller watt blues Jr is still loud and if your looking for a real tube sounding practive amp then you need somthing to sound good with tubes between 1 and 4 on the volume. Fender solves this with the super champ x2. It actually sounds good from 1 to 5 on the volume and it has built in Fx. its got a 10nch speaker that most people upgrade with a celestion and it uses the 6v6 tube so it has a smooth nice midrange. its a great practice amp and vacation amp and with the built in FX you dont have to haul around a crap ton of pedals and cords just to play somthing in the T.V room. The blues Jr sounds good when it opens up though. it sounds great around 3.5 to 8 on the volume. it mushes up higher then that but I had mine and loved it but it became kinda useless after I got the champ x2 becouse the champ sounded good at low volume and I have a EVH LBX2 that sounds good in that 15 watt range that I play through a 2x12 cab. at that point the blues Jr just sat. you can use a solid state Fender amp with FX. They sound ok at low volume but lack the real tube sound and response. Dont sell your larger Fender amp. keep it for different occasions or have Kruse Kontrol Amplification mod it with power scaleing so it can be played at low practice volume or flip the power scale switch in the back to adjust it for higher club volume again. Thats another option all together. He has tone samples on his web sight. his power scaleing levels switch is super usefull for bigger amps and makes them more managable by far
                            Sending a big thank-you to all of you folks for responding. I haven't kept up with a lot of the new technology out there in the past several years, I knew my favorite forum here was a good place to inquire and y'all have given me great info to check into.
                            It's absolutely true that these tube amps I have aren't really able to fulfill their respective capabilities due to volume restraint, like you said, tubes need to be pushed to at least 3 but I lean towards 4 to get 'em warm. I'm not in a band nor plan to be any time soon, I'll most likely hang onto the bigger amps just in case but I think a quality vintage princeton or a vintage champ model will be in my future down the road, and always hang onto the deluxe reverb. I have entered a time in my life where I don't want to play through higher powered tube amps all of the time but I still want true tone. I'm close with pedals and amp volume turned down to 2.5 or so, but again not really driving the tubes as they should and therefore not really attaining any "verge of breaking up" tone. I need that. I'm looking for the ability to crank an amp up to 4-plus without inflicting damage...lol...
                            i realize that it doesn't sound very "rock n roll" to say that but my ears have paid some serious dues and there's a need these days for me to have a little more respect for them...lol...I still want to make my guitar scream, but with lower decibel/overall-volume levels. The super champ x2 sounds like a good option...I may consider an attenuator. Time to study up.

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                            • #15
                              Re: attn. smaller tube or SS amp users

                              Originally posted by midnite_man View Post
                              For quite some time I've been pondering the notion of buying a smaller amp that would give me similar tone and range as my Fender Deluxe Reverb. 22 watts may not seem like a lot of punch for some but it's a wall shaker in my house, plus my 62 year old ears need a break now and then. I'd like to maintain a big-ger sound but at lower volumes. Being primarily a tube guy I've thought about a Blues Jr, or a Princeton, but am not really wanting to spend that kind of money on another amp right now. I've read and heard a lot of intriguing words about the Boss Katana series with power adjustable capabilities, and several modeling options.
                              I thought I'd open it up to you folks for your input. Different brands? Thanks!

                              The Deluxe is considered the "Desert Island" guitar amp by manufacturers and pros alike with it's versatile and classic tones -so there are many people making a great smaller alternative.What kind of price range are you thinking? there are incredible Deluxe style (Bassman lineage tone stack amps) in a smaller size and wattage -ones that arguably sound as good or better for some things in some cases.
                              Last edited by NegativeEase; 03-23-2020, 10:15 PM.
                              “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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