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Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

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  • #31
    Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

    Originally posted by Larioso View Post
    Here is an article on no-load tone pot


    Say you don't hear it - examine hearing loss maybe which I thought I had after too many hours in rehearsals way to loud when I was young.
    But doing more recording and mixing I found I was quite alright in my hearing still. Maybe it repair over years.
    You clearly don’t know who you are talking to. And now you are talking only about the pot, not the tone cap, which I clearly distinguished in my previous post.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

      Originally posted by Larioso View Post
      I wonder if the most revealing part might be with knob on 10. This you cannot do anything about if wanting to go brigther.
      I heard before and also listened to YT vids where they disconnected tone circuit, with clearly audible brigther tone.
      So it is filtering even as knob on 10.

      This is where those zero-something pots come in, where swiper touch no carbon at all at 10, so same as disconnected.
      So depending which direction you want to go you set capacitor value as starting condition, unless you have this disconnect functionality.

      I saw some example where they put .015 uF at neck, to have is slightly brighter, and .022 at bridge circuit since it need no extra treble boost.

      Others go 1 Mohm on volume pot in neck, DiMarzio has one, to also make it just a bit brigther. All components are part of the circuit - including the cable.

      So depending on guitar and pickups you can adjust some things around pickups to make it brighter.
      - if not using low capacitance cable like GeorgeL with 19 pF/foot or 60 pF/meter - you could start using that
      - go to 1 Mohm volume pot
      - set tone cap to smaller value like .015 uF instead of .022 uF

      All these things are cheaper than swapping pickups.
      I have a PRS Custom 22 I modified with two Duncan Antiquity humbuckers. To get a clearer, more transparent sound from the neck pickup, I disconnected the tone control from the neck pickup. This works. There is definitely a difference in sound. I use a .02 Orange Drop for the tone cap, and the tone control works only on the bridge pickup or when both pickups are combined. But not when only the neck pickup is chosen.
      “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

        Originally posted by freefrog View Post
        IF time permits, I'll share another slice of my experimental data, showing the difference between a 1nF cap and a standard tone cap with the same 250k tone control FULL UP - with this paradox that the 47nF cap, which is obviously making the tone much darker @ 0/10, is also what makes the sound a wee bit BRIGHTER when the tone control is @ 10/10.
        Thanks.
        The components involved are creating a more complex circuit that what is obvious at first.

        I think I had a similar resonance fenomena doing a bleed circuit on a hollow body guitar.
        Just trying various values where I found treble was not changed severly down to 5 on knob - resistor + cap in series as I recall.
        But got some other change in sound, mids or so - so guessing some resonance in other parts of spectrum.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

          Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
          I have a PRS Custom 22 I modified with two Duncan Antiquity humbuckers. To get a clearer, more transparent sound from the neck pickup, I disconnected the tone control from the neck pickup. This works. There is definitely a difference in sound. I use a .02 Orange Drop for the tone cap, and the tone control works only on the bridge pickup or when both pickups are combined. But not when only the neck pickup is chosen.
          Yes, it's interesting, thanks.
          Is that standard PRS way - that tone is just on bridge?

          Seems clever to me. Gibson style make all a mess with double pickups and middle position, volume pots and tone circuits in parallell.
          If it wasn't for that 3 humbuckers start to affect strings a bit too much, I would go for that and have middle position do only middle pickup - or something.
          So I never use middle position now - it does not sound right to me.

          It would be to make Peter Green mod, and make them out of phase and dial in volume balance for sweet spot.
          With DiMarzio I can separate shield from coil wires - which original Burstbuckers didn't allow only having shield and hot.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

            Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
            Again, you are mixing up the difference between pot values and cap values. Pot values have more impact on making the guitar brighter with the controls on ten than the tone cap value will.
            You just don't accept that tone circuit with knob on 10 actually has an impact that is audible. You only talk about it that it matters when turned down. That is what i read in your post.
            That is not the case.

            The talk about tone pot as well, since part of tone circuit to ground - is relevant in the context that disconnecting pot or using smaller cap values will both benefit highs.

            But as said - depending on which genre and sound you usually play with - that little benefit might not make a difference to some people.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

              Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
              I have a PRS Custom 22 I modified with two Duncan Antiquity humbuckers. To get a clearer, more transparent sound from the neck pickup, I disconnected the tone control from the neck pickup. This works. There is definitely a difference in sound. I use a .02 Orange Drop for the tone cap, and the tone control works only on the bridge pickup or when both pickups are combined. But not when only the neck pickup is chosen.
              i did this on my hamer monaco elite as well and it works well for that guitar

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                You just don't accept that tone circuit with knob on 10 actually has an impact that is audible. You only talk about it that it matters when turned down. That is what i read in your post.
                That is not the case.

                The talk about tone pot as well, since part of tone circuit to ground - is relevant in the context that disconnecting pot or using smaller cap values will both benefit highs.

                But as said - depending on which genre and sound you usually play with - that little benefit might not make a difference to some people.
                You aren’t reading my posts. I chose my words carefully. I said the pot value has an affect on 10, the cap has negligible effect. Know the difference.

                Earlier you even equated a treble bleed circuit with a tone circuit, which is false. Reading your posts, it sounds like you only know things you read on the internet or saw in a YouTube video and haven’t ever actually wired a guitar.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                  Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
                  You aren’t reading my posts. I chose my words carefully. I said the pot value has an affect on 10, the cap has negligible effect. Know the difference.

                  Earlier you even equated a treble bleed circuit with a tone circuit, which is false. Reading your posts, it sounds like you only know things you read on the internet or saw in a YouTube video and haven’t ever actually wired a guitar.
                  I did not equate bleed - I told a story about how a bleed circuit makes the full circuit even more complicated creating resonant peaks.
                  And most importantly it was a comment to somebody else.

                  There are two pots - one that is used as a pot for volume and one that is used as variable resistans in series with cap for tone circuit.
                  Even though it's all one circuit since pickup is parallell to both volume pot and tone circuit and goes out the cable to amp with a capacitance that is part of circuit too.

                  I think you should focus on extending your signature - it only takes half space in this thread.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                    Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                    I did not equate bleed - I told a story about how a bleed circuit makes the full circuit even more complicated creating resonant peaks.
                    And most importantly it was a comment to somebody else.
                    You made the following comment in a post quoting my post.

                    Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                    So some make a bleed circuit over volume pot - same type as tone circuit, but other values - resistance and cap in series with signal over to wiper.
                    Treble bleed is not the same as a tone circuit. In a treble bleed, the resistor and cap are not in series, they are parallel, and they do not go to ground but are inline with the hot signal. It’s a different circuit that serves a different purpose. The only thing they have in common is that they are defined as RC networks which function as a filter, either high pass or low pass. And a treble bleed does not create a resonant peak.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                      Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
                      You made the following comment in a post quoting my post.

                      Treble bleed is not the same as a tone circuit. In a treble bleed, the resistor and cap are not in series, they are parallel, and they do not go to ground but are inline with the hot signal. It’s a different circuit that serves a different purpose. The only thing they have in common is that they are defined as RC networks which function as a filter, either high pass or low pass. And a treble bleed does not create a resonant peak.
                      The bleed circuit can just as well be R+C i series and in parallell. It's the time constant that matter. I've done a couple as series bleed circuits.
                      And since I experienced it myself, how not only highs were affect by bleed - coils in pickup play a roll.

                      It's all one circuit - where different parts serve different purposes.
                      - pickup serve as generalting tone from strings
                      - volume knob allow to adjust volume level
                      - bleed circuit, if there, compensate loss of highs as volume is turned down
                      - tone circuit allow to send more highs to ground, making tone more mellow
                      - cable allow to transfer of guitar signal to amp

                      changing parameter in one of these above - will affect the full circuit and what signal to amp contain.
                      With volume on 10 bleed circuit is shortcircuited.

                      and since pickup is coils that is part of circuit as well - you can see, as freefrog added diagram, you see that pickup coil also play a roll and can create resonances.

                      Dealing with active pickups that circuit is more like out of the equation. But for passive circuits it's all affecting each other changing one component.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                        One sample Fender bleed circuit
                        Standard in all American Professional Series guitars, this simple mod can help your tone at all volumes.


                        A combined R+C in parallell and in series with another R.

                        I have not checked, but have a Fender Shawbucker Tele - that has bleed circuit as delivered - it might be the same.
                        It might remedy the not perfect result I got with my hollow body bleed circuit - also changing mids a bit.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                          "The hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is.” - Edward Van Halen
                          “The hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is.” - Edward Van Halen

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                            Originally posted by dotsdad View Post
                            "The hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is.” - Edward Van Halen
                            I'm not going to trust some guy who couldn't even figure out how to wire up a neck pickup.


                            :P
                            Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                            Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                            This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                              Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                              I'm not going to trust some guy who couldn't even figure out how to wire up a neck pickup.


                              :P
                              “The hell with the rules. If it sounds right, then it is.” - Edward Van Halen

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Tonepot ceramic capacitor - should I change it?

                                They were good enough for steve howe.

                                22:00 shows the pot electronics cavity.

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