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'57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

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  • #16
    Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

    Just curious, what year is your Traditional? Some specs say they have a Classic+ in the bridge, some say they have a Burstbucker 3 in the bridge. Just wondering is a Classic+ really that bright. I know Burstbuckers are brighter than balanced coil pickups, that’s what made me think of it. You’d have to flip the pickup over and look at the baseplate to know for sure.

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    • #17
      Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

      Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
      Just curious, what year is your Traditional? Some specs say they have a Classic+ in the bridge, some say they have a Burstbucker 3 in the bridge. Just wondering is a Classic+ really that bright. I know Burstbuckers are brighter than balanced coil pickups, that’s what made me think of it. You’d have to flip the pickup over and look at the baseplate to know for sure.
      It's a 2013, so it should have the '57 combo.

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      • #18
        Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

        I'll walk outside the box and say that your neck pickup might be too high, which is why it sounds muddy and dark compared to your bridge pickup.

        Try lowering your neck pickup as low as it goes and work your way up, and see how they match each other EQ wise. Let us know!
        Epiphone LP Standard PlusTop Pro
        Ibanez SZ320 / A8 DD103 bridge.
        Ibanez RG270 / Screamin' Demon bridge.

        Egnater Tweaker 15 Head / Laney Cub 8 / 2x12 - Celestion V30+K100
        Line 6 M13 and plenty of stompboxes I rarely use!

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        • #19
          Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

          My 2014 Gibson Les Paul trad II pro came with a Gibson Super 57 in the bridge.

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          • #20
            Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

            To answer to the first post, I'll mention 3 typical ways to reduce the brigthness of a passive pickup:

            -Toying with magnetism. Setting screw poles, changing the height of the pickup, swapping its magnet are just various ways to tweak its magnetic circuit.

            -Putting less resistance to ground. Lowering the tone pot essentially diminishes the resistance during most of the process (the cap starting to be really heard below 3/10). Mounting 250k or 300k controls instead of 500k pots does the same. A simpler way to obtain the same thing than such new pots is to mount a resistor in parallel with the controls . It will change their taper but it's a cheap and quick way to test what less resistance does...

            -Tweaking stray capacitance.

            As this last point is the least often evoked online, it's also a subject on which I'll grossly insist once again... :-))

            Put a tiny bit of "stray capacitance" in parallel with a "low output" pickup and it will sound closer to a high output one. It won't have its power but it will mimic its "voicing".

            It's a trick that I use for decades. My main Strat include a 1nF cap that I can put in parallel with its underwound pickups in order to emulate the nasal midrange of a SSL5. The FilterTron's in one of my LP sound like P.A.F.'s as soon as I put them in parallel with a 3,3nF cap... and so on.

            Caps are cheap (a few cents) and really easy to test: just connect them with alligator clips between the ground and hot of your output jack and you'll hear what I'm talking about.

            The same test can be done with a resistor : 750k in parallel with two 500k controls do the same than 500k and 300k. A 470k resistor will mimic 500k + a weak 250k. And so on....

            If the goal is to approximate the voicing of a JB, a 780pF (0.00078µF) or 1nF (1000pF / 0.001µF) in parallel with the Classic 57+ should be a good starting point. It might require a parallel resistor too if its magnet is powerful (it's often the case with recent Gibson HB's: they tend to charge their mags way too much).

            My two cents, FWIW (= the price of a resistor or small capacitor). :-)
            Last edited by freefrog; 04-07-2020, 11:30 AM.
            Duncan user since the 80's...

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            • #21
              Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

              Every guitar I've ever owned that has two or more pickups....the bridge pickup is brighter than the neck.
              Location, location, location.
              Tone control, turn down on bridge pickup to taste.

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              • #22
                Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                If you're looking to change the sound for just this guitar, going to a 500k volume in the neck should help balance the two pickups a little better. If you're looking to have it match better with your other Les Paul, throw a custom in this one as well.

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                • #23
                  Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                  Originally posted by cokekolev View Post
                  Not in my case, as the pickups are covered, so I'd have to unsolder the cover, remove wax, etc. I think a pot swap might just do the job.
                  Ok. I have Duncan Antiquitys in most of my guitars and they come stock with a roughcast alnico 2 magnet. If you want a vintage pickup the Antiquity has my favorite sound.

                  The cover is aged though. Might not match the look of your neck pickup.

                  Do you want another covered humbucker? The Seth Lover is very close to the Ant but it has a polished A2 magnet which gives it, IMO, a bit clearer and slightly less textured sound. Still an excellent sound and better than the 57 Classic, IMO.
                  “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

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                  • #24
                    Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                    Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
                    Ok. I have Duncan Antiquitys in most of my guitars and they come stock with a roughcast alnico 2 magnet. If you want a vintage pickup the Antiquity has my favorite sound.

                    The cover is aged though. Might not match the look of your neck pickup.

                    Do you want another covered humbucker? The Seth Lover is very close to the Ant but it has a polished A2 magnet which gives it, IMO, a bit clearer and slightly less textured sound. Still an excellent sound and better than the 57 Classic, IMO.
                    I think I might just not be that much into vintage output humbuckers. They all sound brighter than overwound pickups. To my ears, the're even brighter than stuff like the JB or Distortion.

                    My Alnico II Pro Slash has a bit of the same problem, but by lowering the polepieces and especially the one on the high E, I solved much of the problem. Same with the '57 Plus, It sounds better now with the polepieces lowered. I still might need to throw a 500k volume in for the neck and maybe a 250k tone for the bridge. I think that will give me the desired sound.

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                    • #25
                      Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                      Originally posted by cokekolev View Post
                      I think I might just not be that much into vintage output humbuckers. They all sound brighter than overwound pickups. To my ears, the're even brighter than stuff like the JB or Distortion.

                      My Alnico II Pro Slash has a bit of the same problem, but by lowering the polepieces and especially the one on the high E, I solved much of the problem. Same with the '57 Plus, It sounds better now with the polepieces lowered. I still might need to throw a 500k volume in for the neck and maybe a 250k tone for the bridge. I think that will give me the desired sound.
                      As a general rule, vintage (PAF style) pickups are clearer and more articulate than overwound pickups, and even if they don't actually have more treble, they can sound like it.

                      Larry

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                      • #26
                        Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                        I think the Traditionals of that era had 500k volumes and tones. Mine is a 2016 and it came with 500k for both volumes and tones. I wired them 50s style when I got them (and the prior owner had already replaced them with CTS pots but I have the originals -- I can measure them to be sure when I get home). Here are the specs:



                        I would start with pickup height honestly. Set them around Gibson specs -- about 4/64 (1/16) from the strings with the low and high E depressed. You might lower them a quarter to half turn from there, but that should thicken things up. If not, they just might not be the right pickups for you.

                        I prefer unpotted pickups for that PAF tone, which is what the 57s are after. In that light, the recommendation for Seth Lovers would be my next suggestion as well. I had Antiquities in mine that were fantastic (and I'm about to sell them) and I have the Custom Shop Pearly Gates set (unpotted, double creme) in there now. I prefer the latter, but any of those will get you in the ballpark and should thicken things up a fair amount at the cost of some low end "firmness." The PAF types have a more spongy low end, softer than a hotter, potted wind with an A5 pickup. If you want to go the other direction and firm up the low end while getting more bite, Duncan 59s would do the trick, or you could use a hotter bridge like the JB or Custom. I have a JB/59 set in my other Les Paul now and it sounds amazing.

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                        • #27
                          Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                          Originally posted by David Garner View Post
                          I think the Traditionals of that era had 500k volumes and tones. Mine is a 2016 and it came with 500k for both volumes and tones. I wired them 50s style when I got them (and the prior owner had already replaced them with CTS pots but I have the originals -- I can measure them to be sure when I get home). Here are the specs:



                          I would start with pickup height honestly. Set them around Gibson specs -- about 4/64 (1/16) from the strings with the low and high E depressed. You might lower them a quarter to half turn from there, but that should thicken things up. If not, they just might not be the right pickups for you.

                          I prefer unpotted pickups for that PAF tone, which is what the 57s are after. In that light, the recommendation for Seth Lovers would be my next suggestion as well. I had Antiquities in mine that were fantastic (and I'm about to sell them) and I have the Custom Shop Pearly Gates set (unpotted, double creme) in there now. I prefer the latter, but any of those will get you in the ballpark and should thicken things up a fair amount at the cost of some low end "firmness." The PAF types have a more spongy low end, softer than a hotter, potted wind with an A5 pickup. If you want to go the other direction and firm up the low end while getting more bite, Duncan 59s would do the trick, or you could use a hotter bridge like the JB or Custom. I have a JB/59 set in my other Les Paul now and it sounds amazing.
                          Mine is a 2013 model, so it has the 300k volume according to Gibson specs.

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                          • #28
                            Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                            Changing the magnet in each pickup from a polished alnico 2, to a rough cast alnico 2 will also thicken the sound.

                            It's an easy thing to do with uncovered pickups but harder if the pickups are covered, as the covers will need to be removed and then put back on again.

                            I don't know if the 57 Classics are wax potted or not. Duncan Seth Lovers and Antiquitys are not.
                            “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

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                            • #29
                              Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                              Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
                              Changing the magnet in each pickup from a polished alnico 2, to a rough cast alnico 2 will also thicken the sound.

                              It's an easy thing to do with uncovered pickups but harder if the pickups are covered, as the covers will need to be removed and then put back on again.

                              I don't know if the 57 Classics are wax potted or not. Duncan Seth Lovers and Antiquitys are not.
                              I think they are potted, because I get no squeal.

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                              • #30
                                Re: '57 Classic plus too bright in bridge

                                57 Classics and Classic + are definitely wax potted.

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