Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

[Larioso]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Humbuckers were developed as a p90 soundalike. And they do......for the original PAF. But a few modern p90's can sound muddy too.
Mahogany LP style guitars also don't have issue for humbucker pickups made in the 60's and 70's either.
Even many modern pickups do not have muddy neck versions. Obviously a lot of PAF clones and the like are the best here as they mimic the clarity of the old pickups the best.
Poor pickups sound boomy - many of the wax potted generic low output pickups are a bit dull generally. Its much harder to get rid of mud when there is so little top end present.
Some guitars just don't like certain pickup models. This is a hard one to account for, as you cannot just apply generic solutions to make a fix.

Plus people mistakenly set up the amp for the bridge pickup, then simply find there is no way to get rid of the mud in the neck.

Interesting read.
Not sure why you mentioned wax potted though - would that have any magnetic or electric properties?
As I understood it all about reducing physical vibrations of bobbins - that even could feed back on stage.

I feel very happy with LP right now
36th anniversary PAF in neck - bass=5.5, mid=6, treble=5.5 - raise mid a bit which favor less boomy
Superdistortion in bridge - bass=8, mid=7.5, treble=5.5 - balance out and give bridge a punch it did not have before

So with less difference neck and bridge - also setting amp works better for both positions.
As you said, I always felt setting amp so neck is cool, bridge squeal, kind of, versa boomy neck and puncht bridge.

Still am to experiment with pickup height - since neck is 2.4mm down, and bridge 3.5mm - makes them rather equal in output.
So will go by tone and see what happends.
I had them too close at first a got wobbly tendency also seen on tuner.

[dr.barlo]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

American Original (4)
American Professional (4)
Artist (21)
Deluxe (2)
Limited Edition (2)
American Acoustasonic (1)
American Performer (2)
American Ultra (2)
Made in Japan Hybrid (1)
Made in Japan Traditional (2)
Parallel Universe Volume II (3)
Player (7)
Rarities (2)
Vintera® (4)

Which one corresponds to the American Standard?

I thought Fender was consistent as you say, but in the last 2 3 years, I am not so sure anymore. They usually had an American Standard (the good old 1K mark guitar with single coils), a Deluxe (with noiseless and all), and the vintage inclined models. There were no Elite's (that name sucks) no Performers bla bla... so I am getting confused.

I suppose American Original corresponds to the American Standard, but still... why fiddle with the names that much? Does confusion (on the consumer side) help the sales?

B

[Larioso]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Maybe they rely on sales people just guiding people for size of their wallet.
- Make customer insecure, so he turns to sales people.
- what's the diffference between....

The stores are required to have a silly amount of guitars in store to even sell Fender, as I talked to sales person getting my Tele.

I looked at stores, even part of the same chain - choose 3 series as it looks.
One held Ultra, Performer and Vintera.
Others do american professional, Performer and Player series.
And other did yet another combination.

None did any American Original.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

American Original (4)
American Professional (4)
Artist (21)
Deluxe (2)
Limited Edition (2)
American Acoustasonic (1)
American Performer (2)
American Ultra (2)
Made in Japan Hybrid (1)
Made in Japan Traditional (2)
Parallel Universe Volume II (3)
Player (7)
Rarities (2)
Vintera® (4)

Which one corresponds to the American Standard?

I thought Fender was consistent as you say, but in the last 2 3 years, I am not so sure anymore. They usually had an American Standard (the good old 1K mark guitar with single coils), a Deluxe (with noiseless and all), and the vintage inclined models. There were no Elite's (that name sucks) no Performers bla bla... so I am getting confused.

I suppose American Original corresponds to the American Standard, but still... why fiddle with the names that much? Does confusion (on the consumer side) help the sales?

B

They completely revamped the lineup over the past 5 years.
For USA models, generally in $ order:
American Original = the old American Vintage Reissue (Vintage Reissue style)
American Elite/Ultra = the old American Deluxe (All the upgrades bells/whistles, modern style)
American Professional = the old American Standard (Middle of the Road, American Guitar)
American Performer = the old American Special (entry level American Guitar)

For the Mexico Series, the Player replaces the Standard and the Vintera replaced the Classic/Classic Player.

The rest there are older holdovers, special editions and signature models.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

None did any American Original.

Since the Original replaces the Vintage Reissue, I can understand not carrying it if your typical customer isn’t a Vintage style player.

[dr.barlo]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

They completely revamped the lineup over the past 5 years.
For USA models, generally in $ order:
American Original = the old American Vintage Reissue (Vintage Reissue style)
American Elite/Ultra = the old American Deluxe (All the upgrades bells/whistles, modern style)
American Professional = the old American Standard (Middle of the Road, American Guitar)
American Performer = the old American Special (entry level American Guitar)

For the Mexico Series, the Player replaces the Standard and the Vintera replaced the Classic/Classic Player.

The rest there are older holdovers, special editions and signature models.

Cool!

I appreciate the information. I could not connect the new names with the old you know.

B

[PFDarkside]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Cool!

I appreciate the information. I could not connect the new names with the old you know.

B

If I was out of the Fender world for the past 5 years I’d be clueless... haha listening to the Guitar Nerds podcast where one of the hosts works for Fender kept me caught up the whole way.

[kramer.geetar]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

They completely revamped the lineup over the past 5 years.
For USA models, generally in $ order:
American Original = the old American Vintage Reissue (Vintage Reissue style)
American Elite/Ultra = the old American Deluxe (All the upgrades bells/whistles, modern style)
American Professional = the old American Standard (Middle of the Road, American Guitar)
American Performer = the old American Special (entry level American Guitar)

For the Mexico Series, the Player replaces the Standard and the Vintera replaced the Classic/Classic Player.

The rest there are older holdovers, special editions and signature models.

Man that’s ridiculously confusing. Thanks for the rundown

[Mincer]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Man that’s ridiculously confusing. Thanks for the rundown

I thought so, too. So essentially, pick a budget and go try out some guitars.

[AlexR]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Interesting read.
Not sure why you mentioned wax potted though - would that have any magnetic or electric properties?
As I understood it all about reducing physical vibrations of bobbins - that even could feed back on stage.

I feel very happy with LP right now
36th anniversary PAF in neck - bass=5.5, mid=6, treble=5.5 - raise mid a bit which favor less boomy
Superdistortion in bridge - bass=8, mid=7.5, treble=5.5 - balance out and give bridge a punch it did not have before

So with less difference neck and bridge - also setting amp works better for both positions.
As you said, I always felt setting amp so neck is cool, bridge squeal, kind of, versa boomy neck and puncht bridge.

Still am to experiment with pickup height - since neck is 2.4mm down, and bridge 3.5mm - makes them rather equal in output.
So will go by tone and see what happends.
I had them too close at first a got wobbly tendency also seen on tuner.

Wax potting reduces the liveliness of pickups - which is part is treble content......and heavy potting (like in cheap pickups) makes them very dull indeed. So given you are talking about mud/loss of treble in the neck slot.....well, its perfectly relevant as an example of what can create issue in the neck position.
Most squeal is due to the cover interacting (vibrating) with the bobbin/metal parts.....and the physical vibrations due to volume making an oscillating loop. Poorly fitting constructive parts also can make for squeal, so wax potting tends to do the whole pickup. Some makers even glue mags into place.
But as you get to really high output pickups the coils have many more layers of wire.....and you need to mute these as well.

[Larioso]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

Wax potting reduces the liveliness of pickups - which is part is treble content......and heavy potting (like in cheap pickups) makes them very dull indeed. So given you are talking about mud/loss of treble in the neck slot.....well, its perfectly relevant as an example of what can create issue in the neck position.
Most squeal is due to the cover interacting (vibrating) with the bobbin/metal parts.....and the physical vibrations due to volume making an oscillating loop. Poorly fitting constructive parts also can make for squeal, so wax potting tends to do the whole pickup. Some makers even glue mags into place.
But as you get to really high output pickups the coils have many more layers of wire.....and you need to mute these as well.

I got rid of potted Burstbucker Pro for the opposite reason - they had some razor edge treble thing going on that were not the best choice in LP standard IMO.

It seems a bit strange to me that somebody bothering making pickups would rely how bobbins vibrate themselves in the guitar.
Then we quickly arrive at if to have pickups mounted in bottom of guitar or a shock absorbing style like Gibson etc - make a difference, of course. But hard to say in which direction.

By coincidence it might even be that bobbins in one guitar vibrate in phase and counteracting what strings do - as being in out of phase with total vibrations. For pickup it must be speed, each millisecond, between poles and strings that matter if they cancel out or enforced by vibration.

So no really buying the general idea that potted means less defined or worse - or we would not have potted pups, I think.
What guitar and how it is mounted would make a difference too, I mean.

[AlexR]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

So no really buying the general idea that potted means less defined or worse - or we would not have potted pups, I think.
What guitar and how it is mounted would make a difference too, I mean.

Less defined and worse are your words.......its called a strawman argument.

Less lively was what I said, and that is absolutely true. Increased muddiness in the neck can be a symptom of overpotting....and that has also been seen many times.
And this is no absolute scale. Potting only changes the pickup compared to what it could be unpotted. Your burstbucker story is a bad example, as that is the nature of that pickup anyhow. If it had been unpotted, then it would simply have been slightly more depth to the tone, but still along the same razor edge tone that it already possessed.

You seem to be making some binary argument here......so if its not in one extreme then it can only be on the other. Potting does not give you the same result 'no matter what goes into the wax'. In fact its an individual process, and is unique to the pickup, and even specific person/company doing the potting.

[Larioso]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

increased muddiness in the neck can be a symptom of overpotting....and that has also been seen many times.

From original post I objected to
"and heavy potting (like in cheap pickups) makes them very dull indeed."

This is what I objected to - that potting for sure would make pup dull.
That is what I would say either or not - and binary as you put it.

This claim in quote now
"increased muddiness in the neck can be a symptom of overpotting"

that is very different. "CAN BE A SYMPTOM" is nuanced or "MAKE THEM VERY DULL" which is a statement.

Discussion is moving forward.

So yes, let's keep the shades of gray in the discussion.

You say "muddy" - I say "less defined" - big deal.

Most common reason for unpotting is taking cover off as well - which makes it open up a bit.
So one must not confuse how much potting alone contribute to this or that.

I saw for some pickup with open bobbins at DiMarzio that it were potted, or they just meant if chosing covered version, not sure.
That would be like 10% potted compared to fully potted with cover, not sure how they mean.

Unpotted versions would resonate at certain frequences and maybe squeal on certain spots on fretboard. So getting rid of that is only a good thing in my world. If you feel it's less defined in tone it's due to characteristics of pickup and guitar together - or other reasons like ****ty high capacitance instrument cords.

[AlexR]

Re: Fender Strat - how much do they change year by year on models?

You are still making very confused statements. Maybe you need to go back and take some time and read a bit more closely - paying attention to grammar in particular.......as you are most definitely misreading certain parts of my posts and applying them generally.

Plus adding in 'worse' is your invention. I certainly have never included any subjective aspects in my posts.

The sort of squeal the potting is made to remove is unrelated to frequencies on the fretboard or the like......this aspect seems to be heading off the the fairies really. Maybe you are confusing the more fundamental nature of harmonic/oscillating loop based feedback.....where the physical nature of the guitar really does come into play.