Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Just a quick update - if all goes well I'll have both switch options in-hand on Monday and I'll be able to see if either of them will fit and/or which one fits best. I actually worry neither will fit but I think I can file down the 2nd PCB a bit on the EP112 and it'll fit. But either way, I'll know in a few days and I'll report back then.

On a personal note, it'll be good to have this info as looking around I've seen this asked (can I use a superswitch in a S-series body?) on multiple other sites with no real definitive answers, so I like knowing this post can serve as a reference for anyone else looking for an answer to this question going forward.

Great, although I don't quite understand the concern with the height on the VLX91. I mentioned that switch because it is considerably shorter than a EP1112, and you were saying after looking at your control cavity that it might even fit a EP1112. If it *might* fit an EP1112, then it *definitely* can fit a VLX91.

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Great, although I don't quite understand the concern with the height on the VLX91. I mentioned that switch because it is considerably shorter than a EP1112, and you were saying after looking at your control cavity that it might even fit a EP1112. If it *might* fit an EP1112, then it *definitely* can fit a VLX91.

It's actually not the height, it's the width I'm worried about - the way the switch mounts on the S-series is that there is a hole routed entirely through the body the size of the switch, this is covered by a plastic "shroud" and the switch mounts to THAT. The way it is routed through the body is only as wide as a... "single-width" switch - if that makes sense. So there's a hole all the way through that's only like 12mm wide and then there's a "lip" where it goes back "up" to the normal cavity height. Hard to explain in words, so I made this which is a little oversimplified and not to scale, but hopefully shows what I'm talking about



As far as I know both switches are "wider" than a normal switch which leads me to be worried about them clearing the "lip". The difference between them is that the VLX is fully encased along the "top" (bottom in the drawing) where the EP112 has an exposed PCB and what seems to be no critical traces or connectivity in that area. So if that one hits the lip, I feel like I can shave down the "extended" PCB a bit to make it clear the lip:



vs the VLX:



Can't really "shave" anything off that.

Hopefully that makes sense. I think I'm actually ok on height, especially on the VLX, but my fear is the width, so then it's down to the EP1112 which I think I can fix the width on, but is borderline on height... Either way, I'll know on Monday and report back.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

It's actually not the height, it's the width I'm worried about - the way the switch mounts on the S-series is that there is a hole routed entirely through the body the size of the switch, this is covered by a plastic "shroud" and the switch mounts to THAT. The way it is routed through the body is only as wide as a... "single-width" switch - if that makes sense. So there's a hole all the way through that's only like 12mm wide and then there's a "lip" where it goes back "up" to the normal cavity height. Hard to explain in words, so I made this which is a little oversimplified and not to scale, but hopefully shows what I'm talking about

[ATTACH=CONFIG]104729[/ATTACH]

As far as I know both switches are "wider" than a normal switch which leads me to be worried about them clearing the "lip". The difference between them is that the VLX is fully encased along the "top" (bottom in the drawing) where the EP112 has an exposed PCB and what seems to be no critical traces or connectivity in that area. So if that one hits the lip, I feel like I can shave down the "extended" PCB a bit to make it clear the lip:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]104730[/ATTACH]

vs the VLX:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]104731[/ATTACH]

Can't really "shave" anything off that.

Hopefully that makes sense. I think I'm actually ok on height, especially on the VLX, but my fear is the width, so then it's down to the EP1112 which I think I can fix the width on, but is borderline on height... Either way, I'll know on Monday and report back.

Ok, that is an interesting switch route configuration in your S series guitar there. Good luck and let me know when you're ready for a diagram - and which switch it'll be.

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Well, Santa came early which made me very happy but Mrs. Claus was not amused.

I've been able to do a quick comparison and grabbed a few pics for those who might be interested:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aq1uQX4TrGao2cz48

The first pic in that album shows the "lip" I was trying to illustrate previously and a few comparisons between all the switches just for relative size comparisons.

A few observations:
- The VLX91 really is an extremely compact "super switch" design. Without the "lip" problem I'd absolutely choose that switch (might still "work" see below) as I think it would be a very neat and tidy install, though soldering to it seems more like neural surgery
- The EP1112 is pretty large compared to the VLX and stock switch, it's funny seeing how compact the VLX is when compared to it.
- The EP1112 will likely be MUCH easier to wire up
- This cavity is very snug The EP1112 ends up actually really close to the volume pot, though the VLX does as well, there just wasn't much space to work with there from the get-go
- The EP1112 will definitely fit if I shave the "extended" PCB down a little bit. I can mount it now but it doesn't sit fully flush so I do need to trim it. The good news is that even sitting a little off kilter (which makes it "higher" in the cavity) the backplate still slides over it without hitting it - but there's like 1 atom of space between them. So if I can get it sit flush against the switch ccover I'll gain a tiny bit of extra clearance, and I can also slightly bend the top-most tabs down a tiny bit to add a bit more clearance which I' think I'll need to do once actual wires and solder are in there.

With regards to the VLX - I'm going to see if I have any longer screws and I'd like to try and shim against the back of the switch plate and see if I can't make it work. My concern then shifts to the "knob" being too short to clear the front of the switch plate in the extreme positions (1/5) but if it's long enough then the VLX might be viable. Again my hope is that in doing this someone else might find this thread in the future and it can give them options and useful info rather than making them redo all the work I'm currently doing.

I'll also post measurements of each switch a little bit later as I found those hard to get in particluar for the VLX, I literally couldn't find dimensions anywhere.

@Jack_TriPpEr - I think things are probably going to end up with the EP1112, but I'll report back once I try shimming the VLX and make a final call.

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Ok, I tried shimming the VLX, didn't have everything I needed to do it properly, but close enough to see how it would work, and it definitely would work, but positions 1/5 have the switch arm/pole/stick/lever (what's the right term?) sitting very close to the switch plate on the S-series style guitar. It works, and it will click in, but you really have to kind of dig your finger under the edge of it to flip it to the other positions. This is because we're basically recessing it deeper into the body so a few mm of "throw" length is now inside the body. It works, it just doesn't feel good. If you're comfortable taking a little wood out of the cavity (in this case, I am not) I think it's the best option as I know a standard S-series is even thinner than mine is and it is a very compact super switch.

So, next, I tried shaving down the EP1112 (new pics added to the album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aq1uQX4TrGao2cz48) and I really didn't need to take much off at all, like 2mm or slightly less. Did a fitup and it mounts perfectly flush, the switch "throw" is as expected at positions 1/5 and there's enough clearance in the cavity when it's sitting properly that I don't think I even need to bend the leads down to clear the backplate. Again, YMMV on a standard S-series but I think this can definitely work, even if you had to bend the leads down just a touch.

Dimensions:
VLX91:
48mm wide at screw plate
44mm wide at PCB(s)
25mm high
18mm deep

EP1112:
48mm wide at screw plate
40mm wide at PCB(s)
32mm high at PCB(s)/35mm high at wiring lead ends
19mm deep at PCB/20-21mm deep at wiring end leads

All measurements are rounded up to the nearest mm as I figured this is more valuable when sizing - if these numbers fit, it should fit with at least some small gap remaining.

@Jack_TriPpEr - I think the winner is the EP1112. Do you think you can assemble two diagrams - one with the current mini-switch to flip neck to parallel, and one with a 4PDT switch that can flip neck and bridge to parallel?

Thanks so much, I hope others find all of this information useful someday.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Very nice job on the notation. That's great that you are thinking about the rest of the forum community and the next person who might run across the same question.

Here is a diagram for a single 2way switch for the neck pickup. Try that 1st and see if you even like it enough to want to do it for the bridge pickup as well. Just FYI in case it did not come up in your research about parallel mode, it yields about a 75% drop in volume compared to series humbucking mode. While we are on the topic, a humbucker split to a single coil yields about a 50% drop in volume output.

Let me know what you think of the pickup combinations.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Also, I meant to say that that wire coming off the volume pot that branches out to many lugs on the pickup selector switch is depicted in a "functional" manner. i.e. you wouldn't literally splice into it as the picture might suggest. You could, but you don't have to, since doing so is more burdensome than necessary. Instead, just route that wire to one of the lugs that it is supposed to connext to, then run another wire from that lug to the next lug it is supposed to connect to, and on and on in turn. So it forms a daisy-chain. If I created this diagram from scratch, I would have drawn it that way, but in this case I modified an already-existing drawing I found at guitarelectronics.com .

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Thanks Jack, I'll look it over and I think the suggestion to try the neck before worrying about getting a new switch is a good one. I may not get this all done tomorrow, but I'll update as it progresses.

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Ok so, I need some help. I assume the "box" (with the numbering) the "switch" side of the switch, and the other side is the bare PCB - I think. I assume this is with the actual switch facing "down" looking at the "bottom" of it?

I wired it up with those assumptions for the bridge but it seems to be... Backwards? Like the bridge is active when the switch is "forward" in the neck position. And only seems to be split in one position as far as I can tell vs 2 of them, so I assume I'm doing something very wrong.

How do I orient the physical switch properly with the switch in the image? Sorry I'm sure it's something really simple but I'm worried that maybe it's more than just a 180 "flip" like do all the pickup leads need to be "reversed" as well?

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Actually I think I figured out the splitting issue, had a bad wire to ground. But the question about how to "reverse" the wiring to make the switch positions line up as expected still stands.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Ok so, I need some help. I assume the "box" (with the numbering) the "switch" side of the switch, and the other side is the bare PCB - I think. I assume this is with the actual switch facing "down" looking at the "bottom" of it?

I wired it up with those assumptions for the bridge but it seems to be... Backwards? Like the bridge is active when the switch is "forward" in the neck position. And only seems to be split in one position as far as I can tell vs 2 of them, so I assume I'm doing something very wrong.

How do I orient the physical switch properly with the switch in the image? Sorry I'm sure it's something really simple but I'm worried that maybe it's more than just a 180 "flip" like do all the pickup leads need to be "reversed" as well?

Actually I think I figured out the splitting issue, had a bad wire to ground. But the question about how to "reverse" the wiring to make the switch positions line up as expected still stands.

Oops, I see now that I designed that diagram for a 2PDT switch. I forgot you had a 3PDT on-on. When I get home I'll look into it.

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Oh no, never even touched that, I'm saying when I have the 5-positon towards the neck, it's actually the bridge pickup selected ��

I just wanted to test only the bridge before getting into the neck wiring

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Oh no, never even touched that, I'm saying when I have the 5-positon towards the neck, it's actually the bridge pickup selected ��

I just wanted to test only the bridge before getting into the neck wiring

Oh, ok, let me review the diagram again so I can describe the switch orientation to you in terms of the EP1112. One minute....

[RexRemus]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Alright, on a whim, I just swapped the north start and N/S finish wires to the opposite side common terminals and switching works exactly as it should. So I'm assuming if I just flip the neck to the other side as well things should "work"?

One thing I did notice - I'm testing this by just tapping the poles on the bridge pickup and when it's in a split mode I still get some signal from the "dead" coil. It's not a lot, it's much quieter than the "live" one, but it is definitely not zero. I don't know if that's normal or if it indicates and issue with grounding or something else. Thoughts?

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

Oh no, never even touched that, I'm saying when I have the 5-positon towards the neck, it's actually the bridge pickup selected ��

I just wanted to test only the bridge before getting into the neck wiring

Oh, ok, let me review the diagram again so I can describe the switch orientation to you in terms of the EP1112. One minute....