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Thread: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Rex,

    The behavior you describe from the Neck pickup seems to suggest the possibility that the Neck pickup in that set came default from the factory as Reverse Wind Reverse Polarity (RWRP), although my internet searches to confirm that possibility have come up with nothing. Up to now, my understanding is they did not unless the customer specifically requested it snd ordering from the Custom Shop (except for Prails and maybe a couple othes). But first, could you compare your wiring work to the last diagram I posted? Particularly the left side of the superswitch.

    I am going to start a separate thread in the forum and ask for clarification about whether Seymour Duncan humbucker sets come with the Neck as RWRP and let you know. [Edit]: here is a link to that new thread: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/show...ucker-set-RWRP
    Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 05-11-2020 at 04:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    While we await feedback on that new thread, do you own a compass or even a magnet with North and South marked? If yes, you can move it around each coil of each pickup and note the magnetic polarity of each coil. If you do this, let me know the results.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Rex, would you mind confirming that you used the Black colored wire on each pickup as North Start, and the Green colored wire on each pickup as South Start?

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Hey Jack, won't be able to really dig into this again until later but as far as my notes on the (initial) diagram I believe I had the color codes correct:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S-series color codes.jpg 
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    And while I can't say this moment I didn't somehow entirely "reverse" everything, I'm fairly sure I didn't - though with the reversed switch vs diagram... maybe I did haha but I believe per the original diagram I did everything as shown - aside from swapping the "outs" top to bottom and bottom to top. And even then I kept "switch side" and "pcb" side the same - was I supposed to invert those? I hope that makes sense I just swapped things "vertically" only, I did not "X" cross them when swapping tops to bottoms, etc.

    I don't have a compass or a marked magnet handy - I realized yesterday it would have been damn nice to have had one or the other, I'll need to add that to the toolkit going forward. If there's another way to test (without pulling everything back out again (I'd love to avoid tearing everything apart entirely again if I can, for a while anyway till the PTSD wears off) then let me know and I'll try to determine polarities that way.

    Once work ends for the day (this evening) I should be able to try and match things up against the new diagram and such again and I'll let you know.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by RexRemus View Post
    Hey Jack, won't be able to really dig into this again until later but as far as my notes on the (initial) diagram I believe I had the color codes correct:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S-series color codes.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	104781

    And while I can't say this moment I didn't somehow entirely "reverse" everything, I'm fairly sure I didn't - though with the reversed switch vs diagram... maybe I did haha but I believe per the original diagram I did everything as shown - aside from swapping the "outs" top to bottom and bottom to top. And even then I kept "switch side" and "pcb" side the same - was I supposed to invert those? I hope that makes sense I just swapped things "vertically" only, I did not "X" cross them when swapping tops to bottoms, etc.

    I don't have a compass or a marked magnet handy - I realized yesterday it would have been damn nice to have had one or the other, I'll need to add that to the toolkit going forward. If there's another way to test (without pulling everything back out again (I'd love to avoid tearing everything apart entirely again if I can, for a while anyway till the PTSD wears off) then let me know and I'll try to determine polarities that way.

    Once work ends for the day (this evening) I should be able to try and match things up against the new diagram and such again and I'll let you know.
    Rex,

    Thanks for confirming about the color codes.

    Correct - the wire swaps were supposed to be in the vertical dimension only, i.e. no X pattern. So you are all set in that regard.

    After you compare your wiring in your control cavity to the latest diagram, if you don't see any misconnections or bad soldrr joints, could you post some pics of the wiring - particularly everything that is attached to that leftside a.k.a. "switch" side, set of poles -and pics showing where each of those wires is attached at the other end.

    Hope you have a good day in the meantime.

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    Rex,

    The behavior you describe from the Neck pickup seems to suggest the possibility that the Neck pickup in that set came default from the factory as Reverse Wind Reverse Polarity (RWRP), although my internet searches to confirm that possibility have come up with nothing. Up to now, my understanding is they did not unless the customer specifically requested it snd ordering from the Custom Shop (except for Prails and maybe a couple othes). But first, could you compare your wiring work to the last diagram I posted? Particularly the left side of the superswitch.

    I am going to start a separate thread in the forum and ask for clarification about whether Seymour Duncan humbucker sets come with the Neck as RWRP and let you know. [Edit]: here is a link to that new thread: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/show...ucker-set-RWRP
    Update: in that other thread, one of the forum Admins (Jeremy) confirmed that Seymour Duncan humbucker sets do not come with one of the pickups RWRP by default. The customer has to request that.

    Could you confirm that you bought this set in New condition vs Used condition? If they are used, that raises the possibility that the prior owner flipped one of the magnets.

    Even if they are New, that doesn't rule out the possibility, although very rare, that the factory made a mistake and oriented one of the magnets the wrong way. If they did, we can easily compensate for it with wiring connections, so don't fret it. If this did happen, don't feel bad about it. Instead, feel special, like Peter Green kind of special. Haha. If you are unfamiliar with the story behind that joke, read this: http://www.guitarworld.com/amp/gear/...-les-paul-tone
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by RexRemus View Post
    Hey Jack, won't be able to really dig into this again until later but as far as my notes on the (initial) diagram I believe I had the color codes correct:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S-series color codes.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	49.8 KB 
ID:	104781

    And while I can't say this moment I didn't somehow entirely "reverse" everything, I'm fairly sure I didn't - though with the reversed switch vs diagram... maybe I did haha but I believe per the original diagram I did everything as shown - aside from swapping the "outs" top to bottom and bottom to top. And even then I kept "switch side" and "pcb" side the same - was I supposed to invert those? I hope that makes sense I just swapped things "vertically" only, I did not "X" cross them when swapping tops to bottoms, etc.

    I don't have a compass or a marked magnet handy - I realized yesterday it would have been damn nice to have had one or the other, I'll need to add that to the toolkit going forward. If there's another way to test (without pulling everything back out again (I'd love to avoid tearing everything apart entirely again if I can, for a while anyway till the PTSD wears off) then let me know and I'll try to determine polarities that way.

    Once work ends for the day (this evening) I should be able to try and match things up against the new diagram and such again and I'll let you know.
    Regarding an alternate to a compass or marked magnet: do you have another pickup on-hand where you are 100% sure of the polarity of it? If yes, you can bring that towards each coil of the two installed pickups, and make note about whether there is a repulsion or attraction for each coil. From that you can deduce the polarity of each of the Alpha and Omega's coils.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Yep, will do. I'll go over it this evening (unless something comes up - then ASAP this week) and let you know any findings and I'll post pics of how things are when I get a chance. It's not pretty in there... but I'll do what I can. For reference as to how tight it all was...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S-series cavity.jpg 
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ID:	104792

    And not having anything but bare solid core wire on hand didn't make anything easier. I had to wrap it in tape to insulate. Anyway, while it's not pretty, I did continuity test all joints (and every individual point when jumpered/joined with a common wire) and it all checked out good. Anyway... more to come if not tonight, as soon as I can grab an hour or two to go through it.

    EDIT: Including a link to the source image as it's larger and easier to zoom in on:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/BHXaGat1FPwphWGK8

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    Update: in that other thread, one of the forum Admins (Jeremy) confirmed that Seymour Duncan humbucker sets do not come with one of the pickups RWRP by default. The customer has to request that.

    Could you confirm that you bought this set in New condition vs Used condition? If they are used, that raises the possibility that the prior owner flipped one of the magnets.

    Even if they are New, that doesn't rule out the possibility, although very rare, that the factory made a mistake and oriented one of the magnets the wrong way. If they did, we can easily compensate for it with wiring connections, so don't fret it. If this did happen, don't feel bad about it. Instead, feel special, like Peter Green kind of special. Haha. If you are unfamiliar with the story behind that joke, read this: http://www.guitarworld.com/amp/gear/...-les-paul-tone
    I did see that as well, yeah I'm at a loss honestly. I'll order a compass or something off Amazon today (and some insulated, stranded wire heh) and I suspect at some point I'll just be doing this entirely over again at some point and try and tidy it up some - I was 13+ hours in by the end of last night and my tolerance for "neat and clean" had gotten pretty low by then

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    Regarding an alternate to a compass or marked magnet: do you have another pickup on-hand where you are 100% sure of the polarity of it? If yes, you can bring that towards each coil of the two installed pickups, and make note about whether there is a repulsion or attraction for each coil. From that you can deduce the polarity of each of the Alpha and Omega's coils.
    I have the Hornets I pulled out, if I can find info on EXACTLY how they're done I can try this with those and report back.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by RexRemus View Post
    I did see that as well, yeah I'm at a loss honestly. I'll order a compass or something off Amazon today (and some insulated, stranded wire heh) and I suspect at some point I'll just be doing this entirely over again at some point and try and tidy it up some - I was 13+ hours in by the end of last night and my tolerance for "neat and clean" had gotten pretty low by then
    Since you are ordering wire, I recommend you get 60/40 Rosin core type. This type has a flux "built in". Very easy to work with.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    Since you are ordering wire, I recommend you get 60/40 Rosin core type. This type has a flux "built in". Very easy to work with.
    Do you have a preferred brand/vendor?

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by RexRemus View Post
    Do you have a preferred brand/vendor?
    Sorry, I was also working today and couldn't get back to this thread until now.

    No, no preferred brand. I have tried a couple different brands of type 60/40 Rosin Core and each has been fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Hey Jack, haven't been able to really go through things as far as wiring but I did get a little magnetic polarity detector thing today and the pickups are indeed the same polarity. I think it's safe to assume the same winding as well.

    So I think it's safe to assume something is off on the wiring as far as the coils on the neck. It's "backward" from what it should be at some point. I guess the good news with that is I think it almost entirely wires into the mini-switch so swapping it around probably wouldn't be too bad compared to the bridge which would require pulling everything out again to flip it around.

    I'll try and go through the neck wiring and document it against the updated diagram and let you know but I thought I'd get you this info now since it only took a second to confirm.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    So, I went through the new diagram and tested things with a multimeter for continuity, and I swear everything is correct. The mini-switch is rotated 180 degress - physically, just so that series/parallel were in the up/down orientation I wanted, but if you line up the new diagram with it, all the terminals are correct, the "wiring" isn't flipped. Things seem to terminate onto the superswitch where they should. And the jumpers and such also seem correct.

    One slight difference is in the PCB side jumper across the 8 terminals, and the switch-side jumper across the "outer" 2&4 - you have a distinct lead going from each to the volume pot terminal. I was trying to redice wires in an already cramped space, so I jumpered between those on the switch, and ran a single wire to the pot. I don't know if that would make any difference - I don't believe so, but it is a deviation from the diagram.

    I realize this doesn't make any sense based on the outcome. I know you asked for pictures, but to really get at the bottom of the switch would mean pulling pretty much everything out again, which I'll do if need be, but didn't have a ton more time tonight and I was able to get in there with the probes and everything seems "right". I'm waiting for a few things to arrive and then I might honestly tear it out and just start from scratch again, but won't have time till the weekend again to really do that - if the stuff even gets here by then.

    I'm open to any thoughts, like I guess what can possibly be swapped to potenitally troubleshoot this? If it's something small and quick I can possibly try it this weekend and report back. Like if we assume I messed something up, what is THE thing that could be messed up to cause it to behave the way I'm seeing, and let's just work backward from that maybe?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Rex, I understand that it is difficult to get clear photos since that control cavity is so crammed tight.

    So, instead of a photo of the actual control cavity wire connections, could you post a two pics of two hand-drawn sketches as follows:

    1. A sketch that shows where each wire is attached to the 3PDT switch as it is oriented below, and explicit hand-labeling of each wire so I understand what each wire in the sketch represents. Please also make clear which 3 of the 9 lugs have nothing connected to them

    Name:  20200512_231453.jpg
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    2. A sketch that describes each of the four wires that are attached to each of the 4 common lugs of the superswitch, with the zsuperswitch in the sketch oriented per the below photo. Again, hand-label each of the four wires so I know what each one is.

    Name:  20200512_232035.jpg
Views: 40
Size:  22.2 KB

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Can do! I'll update once I have that done in the next day or two

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    Rex, I understand that it is difficult to get clear photos since that control cavity is so crammed tight.

    So, instead of a photo of the actual control cavity wire connections, could you post a two pics of two hand-drawn sketches as follows:

    1. A sketch that shows where each wire is attached to the 3PDT switch as it is oriented below, and explicit hand-labeling of each wire so I understand what each wire in the sketch represents. Please also make clear which 3 of the 9 lugs have nothing connected to them

    Name:  20200512_231453.jpg
Views: 37
Size:  6.2 KB


    2. A sketch that describes each of the four wires that are attached to each of the 4 common lugs of the superswitch, with the zsuperswitch in the sketch oriented per the below photo. Again, hand-label each of the four wires so I know what each one is.

    Name:  20200512_232035.jpg
Views: 40
Size:  22.2 KB

    Thanks
    Hi Rex,

    Regarding the sketch of the 3DPT switch, please draw an arrow to indicate the direction of travel of the switch, so I can correctly interpret the sketch. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Jack - As I am working on these diagrams, I've noticed something - regarding the "switch flip" between the 1st and 2nd revisions, one thing I noticed was that the numbering didn't change - it's 1-5 top to bottom in both orientations. In theory, if the 2nd version has rotated the switch 180 along the "Z" axis (coming out towards you), wouldn't it now be 5-1 top to bottom? I guess it doesn't really matter since it's sort of an arbitrary numbering (position 1-5 are all "relative" could name them after farm animals as long as it's consistent across terminals), but just something I figured I'd ask.

    Anyway, made this over lunch per your request:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	S-series diagram_for-jack.jpg 
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ID:	104814

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    Default Re: Help with HH wiring in Ibanez S-series

    Relaized that might not be super easy to see as the forum scales it down a lot so here's two slightly zoomed pics:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	104815

    Click image for larger version. 

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