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Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance added?

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  • #31
    Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

    Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
    Imagine how much better Jimi would have been if only he had true bypass pedals...
    The world will never know.
    Lol
    Or buffers and a Metalzone!

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    • #32
      Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

      Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
      And yet, Jimi Hendrix bravely climbed the stairs and took the stage knowing he had 3 buffers in a row
      Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
      Imagine how much better Jimi would have been if only he had true bypass pedals...
      The world will never know.
      Lol
      I know these are jokes but seriously, I’m not sure how many people could handle his live rig. Multiple cranked 100W Marshalls, a Fuzz Face, then the Vibe, Octavia and Wah. At reasonable volumes that can cause squealing for a mortal, doing it with his live rig is like a vintage sports car with no seatbelt. Not only did he control it, he was able to make groundbreaking music with it. Truly amazing when you think about it.
      Last edited by PFDarkside; 05-20-2020, 08:28 AM.
      Oh no.....


      Oh Yeah!

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      • #33
        Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

        Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
        I know these are jokes but seriously, I’m not sure how many people could handle his live rig. Multiple cranked 100W Marshalls, a Fuzz Face, then the Vibe and Wah. At reasonable volumes that can cause squealing for a mortal, doing it with his live rig is like a vintage sports car with no seatbelt. Not only did he control it, he was able to make groundbreaking music with it. Truly amazing when you think about it.
        Without a doubt

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        • #34
          Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

          Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
          I know these are jokes but seriously, I’m not sure how many people could handle his live rig. Multiple cranked 100W Marshalls, a Fuzz Face, then the Vibe and Wah. At reasonable volumes that can cause squealing for a mortal, doing it with his live rig is like a vintage sports car with no seatbelt. Not only did he control it, he was able to make groundbreaking music with it. Truly amazing when you think about it.
          Totally Agree.

          I've stood in front of giant Hendrix style rigs at a giant venue through the main. PA and played a couple of times (mostly sound check lol) -and I quickly realized there's another big discipline going on when controlling errant strings and feedback at that level.
          “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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          • #35
            Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

            I think worrying about true bypass, or cable capacitance might be an issue with miles of cable, or 14 pedals in a row. Most guitarists don't do anything like that, though. It seems like a weird made-up-by-guitar magazines-and-youtube-channels problem that doesn't impact most players.
            Administrator of the SDUGF

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            • #36
              Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

              Originally posted by Mincer View Post
              I think worrying about true bypass, or cable capacitance might be an issue with miles of cable, or 14 pedals in a row. Most guitarists don't do anything like that, though. It seems like a weird made-up-by-guitar magazines-and-youtube-channels problem that doesn't impact most players.
              I would agree, and if giant cable distance was a huge thing -just move to a balanced system from pedal board to AMP and drop back down to guitar level at the pre if it's a vintage amp -or small pre on pedal board and run balanced to power amp input with balanced input. I built several of those systems for guitarists in the 90s from Tom Wright's designs (i worked for him -I just did what he instructed -can't really take credit ) -The Black Crowes was one of the bands that used to use them because of the giant stages they were playing on -they wanted more than 100 ft so they could run from pedals out the front of stage and AROUND the stage back to the amps from side stage or back of stage so the cable path was the least intrusive. I just gooogled around to try and show my version, to no avail -gotta dig deeper I guess
              Last edited by NegativeEase; 05-20-2020, 09:19 AM.
              “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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              • #37
                Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                Originally posted by Mincer View Post
                I think worrying about true bypass, or cable capacitance might be an issue with miles of cable, or 14 pedals in a row. Most guitarists don't do anything like that, though. It seems like a weird made-up-by-guitar magazines-and-youtube-channels problem that doesn't impact most players.
                I don't agree at all - it affects every player - but they start thinking about changing pickups instead of looking at cables and floorboard config.
                All the talk here with which pickup on which guitar - I want more bite etc.

                First time I switched to GeorgeL cable, was like going from 59' model to Jazz, which I actually did once but other way.

                Other probably raise treble a bit on amp instead.

                Further I did not see this on YT at all or any magazine.

                So have first pedal buffered after guitar, the rest true bypass - then cable capacitance is of no concern since output impedance is much lower. Same capacitance in cable - but crossover frequency way up above audible on the created LP filter - compared to high impedance from pickups directly.

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                • #38
                  Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                  Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                  I don't agree at all - it affects every player - but they start thinking about changing pickups instead of looking at cables and floorboard config.
                  All the talk here with which pickup on which guitar - I want more bite etc.

                  First time I switched to GeorgeL cable, was like going from 59' model to Jazz, which I actually did once but other way.

                  Other probably raise treble a bit on amp instead.

                  Further I did not see this on YT at all or any magazine.

                  So have first pedal buffered after guitar, the rest true bypass - then cable capacitance is of no concern since output impedance is much lower. Same capacitance in cable - but crossover frequency way up above audible on the created LP filter - compared to high impedance from pickups directly.
                  I think Mincer's point is not that these things don't exist at all -it's that they have been escalated in modern times as a major issue when traditionally it was just par for the course of being a gigging guitar player -nobody worried about a little noise or slight high end roll off that doesnt make a difference to the uneducated listening audience
                  “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                  • #39
                    Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                    Originally posted by devastone View Post
                    Or buffers and a Metalzone!
                    I'd have loved to hear Jimi with a Floyd. Would have been cool to hear that trem work without it always going out of tune. :P
                    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                    Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                      Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                      I think Mincer's point is not that these things don't exist at all -it's that they have been escalated in modern times as a major issue when traditionally it was just par for the course of being a gigging guitar player -nobody worried about a little noise or slight high end roll off that doesnt make a difference to the uneducated listening audience
                      Mincers point was that this is in somebody's head and not a real problem - I beg to differ.

                      I think why this is of more concern today is that everybody can record at home - and every little bit counts when recording.
                      High end studios pay rediculous $1000's extra to get that tiny bit nicer sound for a single track.
                      But when summed up with 50 tracks just that little bit better - makes a huge difference to end result.

                      When you do record
                      - crap, is this how it sounds?
                      - this in not like records I listen to
                      - it need more of...
                      - it need less of...

                      This was not as available to everybody back in the day. I remember my first Fostex portastudio when it came - I felt now I have a studio.
                      Then I upgraded this and that, and computers and whatnot - and still had to do some sound-on-sound recording degrading result.
                      So I looked at reel-to-reel 16 channel Fostex - but could not afford that and sort of closed the project for good.

                      Anybody have a computer and do this with no effort today - what is missing is the skill how to arrange and mix to professional level.
                      ITB sound good - but as soon as you record something like guitar or vocals these skills matter. What gear in every little bit matter.
                      Anybody playing an instrument today probably do some recording stuff too and become more aware, at least try some.
                      It's really good to do that overall - you really hear what you play and not what is in your head while playing - which fools us - this was good.

                      Just a thought....

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                      • #41
                        Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                        Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                        Mincers point was that this is in somebody's head and not a real problem - I beg to differ.

                        I think why this is of more concern today is that everybody can record at home - and every little bit counts when recording.
                        High end studios pay rediculous $1000's extra to get that tiny bit nicer sound for a single track.
                        But when summed up with 50 tracks just that little bit better - makes a huge difference to end result.

                        When you do record
                        - crap, is this how it sounds?
                        - this in not like records I listen to
                        - it need more of...
                        - it need less of...

                        This was not as available to everybody back in the day. I remember my first Fostex portastudio when it came - I felt now I have a studio.
                        Then I upgraded this and that, and computers and whatnot - and still had to do some sound-on-sound recording degrading result.
                        So I looked at reel-to-reel 16 channel Fostex - but could not afford that and sort of closed the project for good.

                        Anybody have a computer and do this with no effort today - what is missing is the skill how to arrange and mix to professional level.
                        ITB sound good - but as soon as you record something like guitar or vocals these skills matter. What gear in every little bit matter.
                        Anybody playing an instrument today probably do some recording stuff too and become more aware, at least try some.
                        It's really good to do that overall - you really hear what you play and not what is in your head while playing - which fools us - this was good.

                        Just a thought....
                        I want to add that when I record -I don't have ANY pedal connection inline that is not used in the track and use short cabling from guitar to pre -and may effects are not used until mix so are to allow for creativity after the track is recorded. So I don't have nor have really ever had noise floor or capacitance issues pertaining to recording no matter what era or setup I've used or are using -so I consider you challenge you speak of as more of a live issue for the guitar player and never a problem for the actual audience (they don't know, can't hear it or care)

                        -so yeah maybe Mincer's "head" comment is fair to me -it's a slight real personal problem for guitarists with too many true bypass pedals or not enough strategic buffers playing live or wanting every pedal in the chain for recording -but in the end -only the guitarists knows or cares when performing and has an easy solution when recording.

                        Doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for excellence in your chain -but the weight of the issue is so not an issue
                        Last edited by NegativeEase; 05-20-2020, 10:28 AM.
                        “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                          Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                          So I don't have nor have really ever had noise floor or capacitance issues pertaining to recording no matter what era or setup I've used or are using -so I consider you challenge you speak of as more of a live issue for the guitar player and never a problem for the actual audience (they don't know, can't hear it or care)
                          Talking about audience notice this or that is utter nonsense.

                          Audience does not care if using Duncan this pup or that pup either - it's all about performers confidence and how he/she feels about the instrument and the gear and it all. That brings things to the performance itself.

                          IMHO of course....

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                          • #43
                            Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                            Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                            Talking about audience notice this or that is utter nonsense.

                            Audience does not care if using Duncan this pup or that pup either - it's all about performers confidence and how he/she feels about the instrument and the gear and it all. That brings things to the performance itself.

                            IMHO of course....
                            So we agree then. because I am definitely saying that.

                            Most drive for guitar tone gear upgrade nuance and idiosynchrasies are for the guitar himself only (or herself) -not even for a record -it's just that itch to tweak and improve even if you have to convince yourself into something being better -but it's all part of the fun.
                            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                            • #44
                              Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                              Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
                              So we agree then. because I am definitely saying that.

                              Most drive for guitar tone gear upgrade nuance and idiosynchrasies are for the guitar himself only (or herself) -not even for a record -it's just that itch to tweak and improve even if you have to convince yourself into something being better -but it's all part of the fun.
                              And who is duncans forums for - audience or people with instruments foremost?
                              And people post here about issues they have improving the sound they feel is lacking.

                              And your comment is - audience will not notice?
                              Mincers post was saying the same.

                              And that is what I call utter nonsense....and now you try to make a save by stating we agree....you brought audience into it, not me....

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                              • #45
                                Re: Each pedal on pedalboard - connector in/out+true bypass - how much capacitance ad

                                Yeah, this is going nowhere...

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