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Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

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  • Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

    I'm looking to replace some Jackson stocks, but kind of having buyers paralysis on deciding which pickup I should get. I've been listening to pickup comparisons for the last week on youtube, watched all the Keith Merrow videos, and have been reading a lot of these forums and others. Finally deciding to make a post and see if anyone here can give me a little more insight.

    Here is the guitar I just purchased. https://www.jacksonguitars.com/gear/...exq/2919904587

    It has poplar body, which I hear is close to alder, and I mainly play out of an Engl Powerball 2 and Engl Savage 120. I play different kinds of metal (power, thrash, groove, modern) and hard rock dropped to C#, and also play in a cover band as well, doing stuff like ACDC, Metallica, ZZ Top etc.. I have a JB in 2 of my other guitars, one is a Jackson RR5FR with an alder body and it sounds great in it. So I'm very accustomed to the JB, but just wasn't sure if I should play it safe with what I know or try something new. I also have an EMG-81 in another guitar which I also like.

    After watching videos for endless hours my gut instinct tells me to stick with the JB, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about the Black Winter which is my second choice, and have been trying to look into it a lot. People say that it's also versatile, but some say too aggressive and ice-pickey. I hear it being compared to an Sh-6, which is a pickup I don't really like, but cuts better and not so thin sounding. The Sh-5 Custom also sounded pretty good from the '6 String Shootout Metal Bridge Comparison' video. I've also considered a Pegasus/Sentient combo, but that might be a little too scooped and afraid it might not cut that well in a mix.

    Having a tighter low end might spruce up my recordings and be a little more modern sounding, but it seems the JB has the best lead work, and solos are pretty important for me. So hard for me to choose. These 3 pickups seemed to stand out for me though.

  • #2
    Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

    Welcome to the forum!

    The Black Winter and Sentient/Pegasus combo are a little on opposite sides: the BW has more mids, while the S/P combo are more scooped. Both are great for low tunings, and both are amazing for all styles of music. It really depends on what your guitar either needs, or what frequencies you want to emphasize.
    The JB has a ton of upper mids, while the BW is more true mids. Again it is about the sound you are after...they are all great choices, though!
    Administrator of the SDUGF

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    • #3
      Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

      I have a JB in a downtuned bolt-on maple/poplar Kelly, in fact (an older KE3, not a newer X-series, but still the same built type/wood combination). A horrible match, IMO; a floppy low end with a super-thin super-harsh upper midrange was the result. I've got a spare SuperD sitting on standby to fix the problem, when I get a free moment to mess with it (I haven't played that guitar for more than a few minutes in about five years, so it's not high on the priority list...).

      I like the Black Winter in a lot of guitars, but I'd be worried about similar issues with it in my Kelly that I have from my JB. Of the listed choices, I'd go Pegasus.

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      • #4
        Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

        For the tonal versatility in heavier styles that you're going for, I suggest a Distortion set, rolling off the volume pot a bit for the crunchier tones.
        Guitars:Gibson LP Trad ('57 Classics); Ibanez SEW761FM (TB-16/STK-S7 m&n); Charvel DK24 (TB10/SSL-6/A2Pn), DK22 (HRb/SSL-6 m&n), SoCal Style1 (Distortion set) & SoCal Style2 24 2PT (Fluence OCC); ESP LTD MH-1000HS (TB-14/Lil59n); Effects: Line 6 Helix Floor, Digitech Drop & FreqOut, ME EP-1L6,Shure GLXD16, Headrush MX5;

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        • #5
          Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

          Well, if you have some JBs at home, that part is easy: slap one in the new guitar and see if it's hip enough in the new guitar too for your tastes. Also, my philosophy is that I try to keep my guitars different so fir example while I too love me a good JB, I only have one guitar with it.

          As for the Black Winter? I found a small snippet I made with it (neck pickup, tone rolled around midway). Excuse my playing and concentrate on how far the BW can take from gnarly, loud distrortion and the ashes of Fantoft:


          https://soundcloud.com/user-97187376.../s-JvETibuD1sY
          Last edited by nexion218; 05-22-2020, 12:54 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

            I have a JB in an Ibanez and a Custom in my LP.
            I know ....2 very different guitars but if you’re gonna make me choose, I’ll take the Custom any day.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

              Thanks for all the replies so far.

              Welcome to the forum!

              The Black Winter and Sentient/Pegasus combo are a little on opposite sides: the BW has more mids, while the S/P combo are more scooped. Both are great for low tunings, and both are amazing for all styles of music. It really depends on what your guitar either needs, or what frequencies you want to emphasize.
              The JB has a ton of upper mids, while the BW is more true mids. Again it is about the sound you are after...they are all great choices, though!
              I suppose I would prefer to have more mids. The Engl Powerball was infamous for lacking mids and not cutting through the mix. The PB II fixed this issue but it's still a very deep sounding amp. So I definitely want to cut. Where does the Sh-5 fall in the spectrum and how would it compare to the BW in my situation? And what would be better for lead playing? I guess I consider myself a shredder, Marty Friedman and Yngwie.

              I have a JB in a downtuned bolt-on maple/poplar Kelly, in fact (an older KE3, not a newer X-series, but still the same built type/wood combination). A horrible match, IMO; a floppy low end with a super-thin super-harsh upper midrange was the result. I've got a spare SuperD sitting on standby to fix the problem, when I get a free moment to mess with it (I haven't played that guitar for more than a few minutes in about five years, so it's not high on the priority list...).

              I like the Black Winter in a lot of guitars, but I'd be worried about similar issues with it in my Kelly that I have from my JB. Of the listed choices, I'd go Pegasus.
              This is very helpful. Do you like JB's in general or just happens to be really bad with poplar? It seems people can't really decide what poplar is comparable to. I've read it was more like alder, but now I've been reading it's more like basswood (which I'm not familar with at all). I am curious how the BW would sound in it. Just not sure about Pegasus. Mostly worried it won't cut through that great, especially with an Engl Powerball II.

              For the tonal versatility in heavier styles that you're going for, I suggest a Distortion set, rolling off the volume pot a bit for the crunchier tones.
              I can't recall if I've ever played an Sh-6, but after watching countless videos I just don't think I like it. I'm not really good at describing it, but I know I like the JB better. But that's why I've been eyeing the Black Winter, seems like the majority say it's kind of like the Distortion but fixes alot of the problems, and is just overall better.

              Well, if you have some JBs at home, that part is easy: slap one in the new guitar and see if it's hip enough in the new guitar too for your tastes. Also, my philosophy is that I try to keep my guitars different so fir example while I too love me a good JB, I only have one guitar with it.

              As for the Black Winter? I found a small snippet I made with it (neck pickup, tone rolled around midway). Excuse my playing and concentrate on how far the BW can take from gnarly, loud distrortion and the ashes of Fantoft:

              https://soundcloud.com/user-97187376.../s-JvETibuD1sY
              I appreciate the audio clip. I wish there were more like that to show off the versatility. I also hear a lot of good things about the neck pickup, even more so than the Sentient. I'd have to take a JB out of one of my guitars, but could always order the BW then make a day out of it and try both of them out. Just not very proficient at installing pickups, only have done it once so would involve a lot of work for me.

              I have a JB in an Ibanez and a Custom in my LP.
              I know ....2 very different guitars but if you’re gonna make me choose, I’ll take the Custom any day.
              Any specific reasons you like the Customs better? How are solos on them in comparison?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                If it were me, I'd go Black Winter. Everything that I have heard about it says that it's way more versatile than the marketing suggests.

                Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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                • #9
                  Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                  This is very helpful. Do you like JB's in general or just happens to be really bad with poplar? It seems people can't really decide what poplar is comparable to. I've read it was more like alder, but now I've been reading it's more like basswood (which I'm not familar with at all). I am curious how the BW would sound in it. Just not sure about Pegasus. Mostly worried it won't cut through that great, especially with an Engl Powerball II.
                  I'm not a huge fan of the JB, but I've definitely played guitars I like it in a lot more than my Jackson.

                  IME, the Pegasus cuts just fine. I don't know how it behaves with a Powerball (I generally don't care much for Engls), but I've played one through an Uberschall, and it wasn't "too dark"; if anything, it's still brighter than, say, a SuperD.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                    Originally posted by deathx88 View Post
                    Thanks for all the replies so far.



                    I suppose I would prefer to have more mids. The Engl Powerball was infamous for lacking mids and not cutting through the mix. The PB II fixed this issue but it's still a very deep sounding amp. So I definitely want to cut. Where does the Sh-5 fall in the spectrum and how would it compare to the BW in my situation? And what would be better for lead playing? I guess I consider myself a shredder, Marty Friedman and Yngwie.



                    This is very helpful. Do you like JB's in general or just happens to be really bad with poplar? It seems people can't really decide what poplar is comparable to. I've read it was more like alder, but now I've been reading it's more like basswood (which I'm not familar with at all). I am curious how the BW would sound in it. Just not sure about Pegasus. Mostly worried it won't cut through that great, especially with an Engl Powerball II.



                    I can't recall if I've ever played an Sh-6, but after watching countless videos I just don't think I like it. I'm not really good at describing it, but I know I like the JB better. But that's why I've been eyeing the Black Winter, seems like the majority say it's kind of like the Distortion but fixes alot of the problems, and is just overall better.



                    I appreciate the audio clip. I wish there were more like that to show off the versatility. I also hear a lot of good things about the neck pickup, even more so than the Sentient. I'd have to take a JB out of one of my guitars, but could always order the BW then make a day out of it and try both of them out. Just not very proficient at installing pickups, only have done it once so would involve a lot of work for me.



                    Any specific reasons you like the Customs better? How are solos on them in comparison?
                    I find the Custom to be fuller sounding and I like that the mids are lower in frequency and aren’t nasal at all.
                    The JB definitely “sings” when playing single note lines but the Custom’s harmonic content is absolutely no slouch in that department either.
                    Pinch harmonics are a breeze with both pickups.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                      The SH-5 has a lot less mids than the BW. It is pretty scooped, like a higher output PAF. The BW is the mid-focused champ of high output pickups.
                      Administrator of the SDUGF

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                      • #12
                        Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                        On the Duncan website there are very good videos of all of the pickups mentioned. I didn’t watch the BW vid but the Custom and JB vids very accurately represent what you’re gonna get from each pickup.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Need advice for Jackson Kelly. Sh-4/Black Winter/Sh-5?

                          I've given it a lot of thought, but I think I'm going to try out the Black Winter set. Just hear too many good things about these, and seems like a good pickup all around. The bump in mids would be good to cut through the mix better at shows, especially with an Engl PB II . A little more expensive then both the JB and Custom, was hoping to find a better deal out there used or something. Just wish I had more info on those Jackson stock pickups to make a better comparison with the specs, but maybe could find out more when I take them out. Only thing I hope they won't be too harsh with poplar wood, but the guitar seems to made with 'high output metal' in mind. I guess I'll find out though.

                          If anyone is interested I might make some comparison clips myself when they are installed. Thinking of doing a JB/Black Winter/Jackson stock comparison.

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