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Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

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  • Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

    I'm in the middle of a guitar rebuilding project, turning a mostly forgotten and very distressed strat copy into something that I might actually want to play. There is a whole woodworking and refinishing thing also going on which I won't get into (long story short; finishing guitars by hand is hard) but of course there is the much more exciting bit with the electronics.

    This guitar is routed for HSS, but I have replaced the pickguard and will be fitting her out as just a single humbucker. The question is which humbucker, and that is what brings me to you.

    This guitar is definitely not going to versatile; it's going to be my Drop C guitar for playing metally metal and nothing else. I almost feel spoilt for choice when it comes to that kind of pickup these days, but also a bit out of my depth. It's hard to make a confident choice when it seems everything would be pretty good. If I'm going to drop £100+ then I want something that fits well, ******.

    I am looking for chuggy rhythm with clear definition at the bottom end. I am not a lead player, but I play some fills and easy/short solos, so the top end needs to be reasonable but isn't my biggest concern. I'm much more of a modern metal kind of guy - Bands like Chimaira and Machine Head, rather than your black metal.

    I don't know what wood the body is by the way; when I got the finish off I found a very pale, very hard wood and a lot of black epoxy/grain filler. Make of that what you will.

    Black Winter or Nazgul both seem appropriate, but I am a bit uncertain because I can't really tell the difference from how they are described and/or reviewed. They both seem to be “good”. And then Bare Knuckle Pickups make about 7 different pickups that they swear are great for downtuning (Aftermath, Ragnarok, Painkiller, etc) but which I again cannot begin to tell apart, and which also cost a premium.

    Many swear by actives – A Blackout Metal would seem an obvious choice, but so would an EMG81. I am not opposed to active at all, and in fact I'm tempted because I like the extra clarity, but choosing one or another is still a problem. Oh and then there are these Fluence things I have heard about, which are apparently good but versatility isn't my goal here.

    I have too many choices – Someone for the love of god help me narrow this down.

  • #2
    Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

    M.T. blackout bridge or Nazgul

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    • #3
      Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

      Although I own two pickups you've mentioned (Black Winter and Nazgul), I wouldn't say that Drop C is something that requires a pickup marketed specifically for "downtuned metal". So, for "metally metal" I would also suggest Parallel Axis Distortion (I own one too and use it occasionally in Drop C). Compared to Black Winter and Nazgul, it has more warmth at the top end and is better suited for your rare solos

      Pete Cotrell made a video on YouTube in which even JB sounded killer in Drop C. And many people dig JB for its lead tone.

      Maybe you should also take a look at Alternative 8. I haven't tried it but from what I've heard it definitely fits your requirements.

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      • #4
        Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

        Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
        Although I own two pickups you've mentioned (Black Winter and Nazgul), I wouldn't say that Drop C is something that requires a pickup marketed specifically for "downtuned metal".
        +1

        Screamin' Demon is more than enough for Drop C. I like it's versatility (can go from clean to mean) and it has a lot of harmonic and sustain.

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        • #5
          Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

          Originally posted by elelpe View Post
          +1

          Screamin' Demon is more than enough for Drop C. I like it's versatility (can go from clean to mean) and it has a lot of harmonic and sustain.
          Well, that's marketing. If the manufacturer claims it's for 80's metal, people go for it. Then they pay some YouTuber to make a review that follows the marketing claim.
          I still wait to see a good video review on Black Winter and its versatile applications. No, it's brutal metal frenzy every f****** time...

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          • #6
            Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

            I do feel you that it doesn't necessarily call for a dedicated pickup - Most of the bands I like never had any pickups built for the purpose.

            At the risk of exposing my ignorance - At what point is a tuning low enough to require a more dedicated pick up? Is the slew of new pickups really just designed for that kinda Drop A and below zone? It feels like a really small niche to have so many relatively new pickups for 6 string guitars playing in 7 or 8 string tunings. *shrug*.

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            • #7
              Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

              Originally posted by elelpe View Post
              +1

              Screamin' Demon is more than enough for Drop C. I like it's versatility (can go from clean to mean) and it has a lot of harmonic and sustain.
              It's funny you say that because I originally bought an Invader for this project, but had to sit and wait for other parts and installed it into my standard tuned explorer just to see what it was like. I needed to replace the bridge pickup anyway (the old one was apparently not f-spaced and I didn't notice for 10 years) and I liked the Invader enough to just keep it. Thing shreds.

              In the mean time I have read that the Invader doesn't tune down all that well anyway, and that's part of why I got the jitters about what to buy.

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              • #8
                Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                My Drop C Guitar has an EMG 85. It’s Strat scale, maple neck and board, alder body. I really like the tone of the Custom in Drop C. I’d really like to try the Black Winter though...
                Oh no.....


                Oh Yeah!

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                • #9
                  Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                  Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                  Well, that's marketing. If the manufacturer claims it's for 80's metal, people go for it. Then they pay some YouTuber to make a review that follows the marketing claim.
                  I still wait to see a good video review on Black Winter and its versatile applications. No, it's brutal metal frenzy every f****** time...
                  I recommend what I use. Your suggestion, Alt8, I used it for a long time for Drop A and drop C before I use Demon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                    Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
                    My Drop C Guitar has an EMG 85. It’s Strat scale, maple neck and board, alder body. I really like the tone of the Custom in Drop C. I’d really like to try the Black Winter though...
                    Why an 85 over an 81, if you don't mind my asking? The 81 seems the "obvious" choice if I went with an EMG so it would be interesting to know what your thinking was.
                    Last edited by LostTheTone; 05-21-2020, 10:33 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                      Originally posted by LostTheTone View Post
                      Why an 85 over an 81, if you don't mind my asking? The 81 seems the "obvious" choice if I went with an EMG so it would be interesting to know what your thinking was.
                      Two reasons, it came with it and I liked it in this guitar vs. previous experiences with the 81. I used to us an 89/SA/SA set a long time ago too, so the 85 sounds familiar. I think the extra low end works with the maple and longer scale. If it was a Gibson, (mahogany, 24.75”, rosewood) the 81 would probably work better.
                      Oh no.....


                      Oh Yeah!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                        Originally posted by LostTheTone View Post
                        I do feel you that it doesn't necessarily call for a dedicated pickup - Most of the bands I like never had any pickups built for the purpose.

                        At the risk of exposing my ignorance - At what point is a tuning low enough to require a more dedicated pick up? Is the slew of new pickups really just designed for that kinda Drop A and below zone? It feels like a really small niche to have so many relatively new pickups for 6 string guitars playing in 7 or 8 string tunings. *shrug*.
                        Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use a dedicated pickup for downtuning. According to SD, those are SH-5 (Custom), SH-6 (Distortion), SH-8 (Invader), SH-10 (Full Shred), SH-15 (Alternative 8), Pegasus, Nazgul and Black Winter. Most of these pickups weren't "designed" for downtuned metal. They just happen to stay tight when you tune low.

                        So, I just write down my recommendations without further ado:

                        1. Parallel Axis Distortion - PRO: huge, fat and ballsy. Can fatten up a thin sounding guitar. Tight enough for Drop C. Good lead tones. Good sustain due to its unique design (less string pull). I have it in my 1H Jackson (Randy Rhoads type), tuned to D standard and occasionally dropped to Drop C. CONTRA: Not really versatile, but you don't need versatility anyways.

                        2. Black Winter - PRO: Sounds huge. Although it's kinda "bright" you can get really fat, chunky tones with it. If you roll back the volume knob, you get some nice hard rock tones if you want. I use it in Drop C btw. Finally, it is said to split well for cleans (I don't have a push pull function though, so I can't tell for sure). CONTRA: Might not be great for solos

                        3. Alternative 8 - PRO: Fat and loud, people call it a better (and more modern sounding) JB, nice lead tones - so might be a good idea for the 1H guitar. CONTRA: It's a unique humbucker and requires some tweaking with the pickup height to get your desired tone. As I said, I haven't used it yet but it should fit your bill.
                        Last edited by BleedingFingertips; 05-21-2020, 12:49 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                          Nazgul is more upper mids, BW has more true mids. BW does more things well, while the Nazgul does essentially 1 thing, and does it better than pretty much anything. It really comes down to what frequencies you want to enhance or emphasize.
                          Administrator of the SDUGF

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                          • #14
                            Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                            Originally posted by BleedingFingers
                            Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you shouldn't use a dedicated pickup for downtuning...Most of these pickups weren't "designed" for downtuned metal. They just happen to stay tight when you tune low.
                            You're right of course, and in truth all I really want is a high output pickup that stays tight in that lower tuning.

                            The problem is there are the old ones which do so accidentally, and the newer ones which do so on purpose and pretty much all of them are branded as "metal AF".

                            If there was one such pickup on the market, no problem. If there was two or three at least it's be fine. When there's loads and all of them are better than what I have now... Paralysis by analysis ensues.

                            Even worse, just about everything is in the same kind of price range - Just expensive enough that I want to get my money's worth. If there was any pickup for a few bucks less and also pretty good then I'd have a decision.

                            I am leaning towards a Black Winter. No-one is saying it's a bad choice, which is a good start. Of course I can't find anyone with a trembucker in stock so this may stay academic for a little longer...

                            I will look at a parallel axis though - That one hadn't come up before so I will have a poke around.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Narrowing Down Pickups - Drop C Project Guitar

                              I just put in an Omega bridge for C# tuning and I really like it. It doesn't bite an much as a Nazgul, but it's clear and articulate. Worlds better than what the guitar came with stock which I found to be muddy and dead sounding.

                              I found this video to be really helpful when comparing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbRlcdNHYDM

                              Timestamps are in the description so you can click right to any pickup you want and A/B fairly well by clicking back and forth between the timestamps.

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