banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

    Originally posted by Aceman View Post
    Only if you a) Say that there are clearly striking differences in these pickups and b) refuse to play the game - by voting in a blind listen.

    You sir - had guitars cut from the same slab of wood for the regular vs Zephyr listen...
    I’ll do you one better. For my Fishman R&D we have instant swap shuttle guitars. We hot-swapped whatever pickup we wanted. And yes my double cream butyrate “The JB Model” was part of that mix. When I went from that one to the stock new JB everyone in the room practically gasped. Not one person acted like the difference was small, or that they had to really pay attention to tell the difference.

    Now, there are countless recordings made with JB’s that were not old JB’s or they weren’t old at the time of the recording, they were brand new with full strength magnets. So this notion that you can make a blanket statement that all old JB’s are always better is sort of half-baked. It’s whatever you like.

    Personally as a guitarist, I think my double cream butyrate The JB Model is the best JB I have ever played in my life. My first pickup swap as a 13 year old was a JB, in the late 80s and I also liked that at the time. But in between, like 90s through maybe 2010 I had hundreds of pickups but no JBs. It wasn’t my sound. Today, I have a few old JB’s and that holy grail double cream. Personally as a guitar player I don’t like the sound of new JBs. I like the Antiquity JB and I’m glad I could get that pickup released while I was there.

    So...Here’s why I’ll call BS on anybody calling BS on me: Some of the differences have to be felt under the fingers, but also some of the differences will be made apparent by choosing the right things to play that highlight the differences. For example for some reason when I play with my fingers, the difference between the double cream and a new JB is even huger. But the differences were also huge through a cranked JCM800, and getting harmonics sounds different the harmonica themselves are sweeter with less scratchy, icepick in the sound. Maybe the differences were a bit more subtle through a mid-volume cleanish Fender Twin Reverb...so the first issue is whether you’ll design a test that masks the differences or highlights the differences. The second issue is the differences in the way it feels to play them. The whole argument of “can the front row audience member tell the difference” is irrelevant. If the musician can feel and hear differences in the way they play and how the amp responds then that counts for a lot as well, and a lot of that would be missed by someone pounding away at some chords on YouTube.

    But go ahead, have fun and do the blind vote test. I already know what I know, and quite possibly could be literally one of the worlds leading experts on this subject. At the very least it’ll be entertaining.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

      It's good that I've never liked JB's in the first place.

      B
      FaceBook; SoundCloud; Barlo's Blues; Barlo Digitalized; Soundclick!;

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

        Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
        ...

        This is interesting:
        well i could definitely hear some differences. i am not too familiar with the different jbs so i would fail in a blind test, but i can see how the ant jb may be the ticket for a less annoying sound. that lil more openess and less spike could make a world of a difference to a owner or the only way to make that PU bearable
        and this is just from the youtube vid/clips
        from personal experience i know that the differences in the room sound and feel are much bigger than any clip can provide.

        i like those comparisons if done properly.
        in a blind test you should put some tracks twice so it will be funny if people hear a difference between them, although it maybe due to the different track they listened to before.

        Edit: maybe with all the different versions it’s a bit like the same pickup in different guitars. i don’t own 2 guitars sounding the same although same construction. but the differences in them makes the same pickup sound noticeable different to me. of course the audience will not notice and i may also fail if somebody else will play the instrument in a blind test to me. but if i play for myself i will miss some nuances in one guitar or it will be too much of something in another
        Last edited by ToneFiddler; 05-31-2020, 05:05 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

          Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post
          Right on, Bob. I totally agree. And Dave would do a very fair and accurate job.

          Just for the heck of it, also throw in a similar sounding but different pup. I'll bet some will even vote for that one as the best sounding "JB". Ha, ha.
          C8?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

            Originally posted by Mincer View Post
            I've never heard them in the same guitar. But the JB has a 'sound' and they all have it. While this pickup has its fans, I was never one of them...of any of the JB types.
            I have to agree. This guitar came with the JB in the bridge. I disliked it so much, I got rid of the whole guitar just in case it wasn't the JB. Its odd that some people wont have a guitar without a JB and then there are those that wont have a guitar that has a JB.

            EDIT: The JB sounded... Honky; like a horn. I tried everything to love the JB and this guitar, it went to Vegas

            Last edited by OKC; 05-31-2020, 07:40 PM. Reason: EDIT:

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

              Originally posted by frankfalbo View Post
              I’ll do you one better. For my Fishman R&D we have instant swap shuttle guitars. We hot-swapped whatever pickup we wanted.

              Now, there are countless recordings made with JB’s that were not old JB’s or they weren’t old at the time of the recording, they were brand new with full strength magnets. So this notion that you can make a blanket statement that all old JB’s are always better is sort of half-baked. It’s whatever you like.
              Noted that there may well be a feel to it that obviously we can't simulate. Or - we could do this blind with Dave too....actually, we'll do that anyway. I'll get a review from him on each pups "play" if you will.

              But as for the front of house factor....front of house, back of amp, monitor mix, whatever...the bottom line is: People think they know one from the other, and believe that one sounds better.

              During the test you will be asked to
              a) Identify both: Your PREFERENCE based on the sound and then
              b) Identify which pup is which

              So...you DO need to actually be able to hear which is which. And you will have NO idea which is which. And just for fun, we'll do two different passes at different times. So, based on everyone's epic knowledge and tonal preferences, you should pick the same one each time...Bwahahahahaha

              Let the BS begin! Still looking for on emote JB
              Originally posted by Bad City
              He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
                A couple things we need to control in the experiment. Is YouTube quality enough to distinguish what is different? And, no one here ‘knows’ the guitar used for the experiment, so it will be difficult to distinguish variance with those uncontrolled influences.
                No - guitar will be HELD CONSTANT. It will not be a factor. The only variation will be due to pickup differences. In fact "knowing" the guitar would actually be a benefit to those who "know" the guitar.

                What's the matter? These pups are so distinct and unusually difference it won't be a problem.
                Originally posted by Bad City
                He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                  Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                  No - guitar will be HELD CONSTANT. It will not be a factor. The only variation will be due to pickup differences. In fact "knowing" the guitar would actually be a benefit to those who "know" the guitar.

                  What's the matter? These pups are so distinct and unusually difference it won't be a problem.
                  I didn’t mean he guitar used would be different. What I meant was, listeners judging will have never played the test guitar and won’t be able to know what portion of the sound is being attenuated or enhanced by the guitar. Like Frank said, you could choose a guitar that masks those differences or enhances those differences. But the listening judges won’t know which way and by how much to be able to recognize the pickups.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                    I'll let Dave pick a "transparent" full range guitar. Choice of 30 plus any of his.
                    Originally posted by Bad City
                    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                      I believe Frank and certainly trust his judgment. But I'm still looking forward to your video, Ace.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                        Ah, the old blind test and the 'narrative hurdle' of the statement that you need to be able to necessarily ID the specific pickup - as if thats the only part of the chain that has a tonal influence of the end result.

                        As others have already stated, you cannot discount the rest of the chain as having an influence. And as such its impossible to determine whether the nature of amp, overdrive, speakers, recording or playback environment is affecting the final outcome.......as we all know well.
                        Plus there is utterly zero chance of picking a 'transparent guitar', as you cannot hear a guitar until you have a pickup in it, and then how do you know its not the pickup doing that.
                        So trying to pick out a generic tonal element when it could be modified or removed by other elements along the way is a wholly flawed premise right from the start.

                        But this sort of test is really just a conjuration from the word go.....which is why it has been suggested. You have some premeditated premise you want to confirm, then you make the validation of the opposite opinion so hard or abstract that you simply have to say 'told you so'.
                        Its just a rather blatant example here.
                        Last edited by AlexR; 05-31-2020, 10:18 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                          Originally posted by Dave Locher View Post
                          I believe Frank and certainly trust his judgment. But I'm still looking forward to your video, Ace.
                          I do not doubt Frank for a moment. I have met Frank Falbo. Most of you yapping about this are no Frank Falbo!

                          But like I said - in the room, I could tell the difference in the Zephyr and the standard. But under any other circumstances...no idea. And if I didn't "know" which was which...no idea which pup I would have chosen sonically. I mean, it was a super hi-fi $500 pickup made of Silver.

                          And that is really the point...A lot of shooting off of the mouth, without having ever heard/played one of these. when your EYES know, and your WALLET knows, etc. that's one thing. Well, let your EARS do the talking and lets see what a big shot pickup guru you JB geeks are!

                          Looks like this may happen....Stay tuned! To quote the Martian, "We are gonna science the $h!t out of this!"
                          Last edited by Aceman; 06-01-2020, 06:19 AM.
                          Originally posted by Bad City
                          He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                            This is getting sweet...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                              be patient kids - I need to finish my Riot vid, and this has a lot of logistics about it...
                              Originally posted by Bad City
                              He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                                As long as Mincer is in on the effort and analysis, I'm willing to submit my $$$$$ vintage JB's to the project

                                But you have to take care of them and give them back...even if you end up falling in love with them, as heartbreaking as it may be

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X