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NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

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  • #16
    Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

    Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
    Most noise gate pedals with FX loops are actually not marketed the way many guys use them, unfortunately. It creates lots of confusion.

    I think the 4 cable method is very logical if you think of your dirt pedals and the preamp as a single fx chain. You go from the SEND of the Silencer into your dirt pedals, from there you go into your preamp and from the FX send (which is the preamp OUT - end of your whole dirty chain) you go back to the RETURN of the Silencer thus making a loop.

    It seems that if you use all 4 jacks the circuit of the pedal switches from INPUT -> OUTPUT to INPUT -> SEND -> RETURN -> OUTPUT. The 4 cable method is the only way to use such noise gate both in front of the amp and in the FX loop. Alternatively, you can use two noise gates through INPUT->OUTPUT. In fact, when I run my guitar through INPUT - OUTPUT of the Silencer into the amp and used SEND and RETURN for the FX loop, there wasn't any output signal at all because I basically skipped the preamp section.

    This is a 4CM diagramm for NS-2, it should work the same way for the Silencer too.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]105146[/ATTACH]
    you dont have the Boss
    you have the EHX
    and its manufacturer has made a different pedal than Boss

    you will need to NS2 to use the diagram posted

    the manual clearly suggests a different method


    but please go ahead
    its yours
    do as you want
    EHD
    Just here surfing Guitar Pron
    RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
    SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
    Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
    Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
    Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
    Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
    GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

      Originally posted by VinceT View Post
      If the cables are good in every other application, and all the scenarios work except the 4 cable with pre-amp in the pedal loop, then the simple answer is: yes, there’s an issue with the pedal... BUT that does not necessarily mean the pedal is defective.

      Given that effects loops vary in circuit (tube-driven, solid state, etc.), quality and input/output impedance, this may simply be a case of a mismatch between this pedal and your amp. You don’t mention what amp it is, so we can’t help diagnose that.

      In my experience, and this just may be me, I’ve never met an EHX pedal that didn’t make some level of unwelcome noise in my signal chain, especially in their more recent offerings, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the pedal wont do the 4-cable method cleanly.

      If it doesn’t work out, I recommend taking a look at the MXR Noise Clamp - it’s a solid option.


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
      Oh, my bad... it's a Randall Diavlo 40w all tube combo with 4 12ax7 tubes in the preamp section.

      I also tend to think that there's some sort of mismatch between Silencer and my amp. When I roll back volume and gain on my dirty channel (from 2 o'clock downwards) the crackling goes away. It seems similar to clipping when the recording signal is too hot.

      Funny thing is the Diavlo series was developed by Mike Fortin - time to start saving for a ZUUL lol

      But seriously, I'm going to give Silencer another chance and ask for replacement at Thomann. If the issue persists with the second silencer, I'll have to find another affordable gate be it ns2, clamp or sentry.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

        Originally posted by ehdwuld View Post
        the manual



        from the manual
        That manual is confusing to grasp, you figured out what's it saying? Does it imply the Amp Send connects to Silencer Send & Amp Return connects to Silencer Return? Should it not be the opposite?

        If it were the opposite then the preamp return would only see a signal if the guitar strings were ringing out. Overal a Gate Effect. I'm still confused what I wrote, the Boss NS2 can do the same as well in that config.

        The X-Pattern in the NS2 pics is for 4CM config, it works different. The Silencer would have to be connected in the X-Pattern like NS2 for it.

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        • #19
          Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

          Originally posted by ehdwuld View Post
          you dont have the Boss
          you have the EHX
          and its manufacturer has made a different pedal than Boss

          you will need to NS2 to use the diagram posted

          the manual clearly suggests a different method


          but please go ahead
          its yours
          do as you want
          Fyi, boss's manual doesn't recommend to use ns2 this way either. This wiring was drawn by someone else.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

            ok its your pedal

            please do whatever you like

            just trying to help
            EHD
            Just here surfing Guitar Pron
            RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
            SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
            Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
            Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
            Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
            Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
            GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

              Originally posted by Hank- View Post
              That manual is confusing to grasp, you figured out what's it saying? Does it imply the Amp Send connects to Silencer Send & Amp Return connects to Silencer Return?
              It definitely doesn't imply this. It's a logical fallacy to think that the amp's send and return should be hooked up with Silencer's send and return. If you go from the send of the pedal into the amp's return you basically go with your dry guitar signal into the power amp by skipping the preamp stage. If you match send with send and return with return, you send your guitar signal to the preamp out.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                It definitely doesn't imply this. It's a logical fallacy to think that the amp's send and return should be hooked up with Silencer's send and return. If you go from the send of the pedal into the amp's return you basically go with your dry guitar signal into the power amp by skipping the preamp stage. If you match send with send and return with return, you send your guitar signal to the preamp out.
                That's what is confusing. The beginning of the fx loop is the Amp Send & the end point is the Amp Return, the way the manual is written, it's basically saying connect send to send & return to return. That makes zero sense, cause the results would be zero

                If it's reversed then the pedal is muting the fx loop based on the guitar input signal sensitivity, but you are also sending the guitar signal to the amp return as well. The guitar signal is already present at the amp input via the pedal output. So...

                Oh why don't they just provide a simple connection diagram, even a block diagram in the manuals.

                But.... coming back to your problem, you do have all units on the same outlet & none of your pedal power cords are giving crackling sounds when moved? And you have an ISO supply for the pedals? In 4CM you can run across ground loops that can form depending on how the amp is designed, which can give all sorts of new problems. It might not be the pedal but a replacement would be a good option to turn to if all else fails.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                  Originally posted by Hank- View Post
                  That's what is confusing. The beginning of the fx loop is the Amp Send & the end point is the Amp Return, the way the manual is written, it's basically saying connect send to send & return to return. That makes zero sense, cause the results would be zero

                  If it's reversed then the pedal is muting the fx loop based on the guitar input signal sensitivity, but you are also sending the guitar signal to the amp return as well. The guitar signal is already present at the amp input via the pedal output. So...

                  Oh why don't they just provide a simple connection diagram, even a block diagram in the manuals.

                  But.... coming back to your problem, you do have all units on the same outlet & none of your pedal power cords are giving crackling sounds when moved? And you have an ISO supply for the pedals? In 4CM you can run across ground loops that can form depending on how the amp is designed, which can give all sorts of new problems. It might not be the pedal but a replacement would be a good option to turn to if all else fails.
                  I think the manual refers to effect pedals placed between Silencer's send and return as fx loop.

                  And yes, I think there's something going on between my amp and the Silencer if the pedal has no malfunction. But in that case it's easier to get another pedal.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                    Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                    I think the manual refers to effect pedals placed between Silencer's send and return as fx loop.

                    And yes, I think there's something going on between my amp and the Silencer if the pedal has no malfunction. But in that case it's easier to get another pedal.
                    This is how I understood it: Manual talks about Silencers effect loop send / return which you can use to contain whole preamp (making it effectively just like the routing of NS-2 in the drawing), or just problematic effects.
                    "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                    Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                      Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                      This is how I understood it: Manual talks about Silencers effect loop send / return which you can use to contain whole preamp (making it effectively just like the routing of NS-2 in the drawing), or just problematic effects.
                      Nailed it!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                        I hope I'm getting another Silencer by the end of the week. I also ordered an NS-2. The one that won't clip shall stay!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                          I have two EHX digital pedals, Holy Grail and POG. Both clip easily with too high level, so it could just be that your loop is too hot.
                          "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                          Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                            Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                            I hope I'm getting another Silencer by the end of the week. I also ordered an NS-2. The one that won't clip shall stay!
                            The NS-2 is great.
                            I have 2. Lol

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                              Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                              I have two EHX digital pedals, Holy Grail and POG. Both clip easily with too high level, so it could just be that your loop is too hot.
                              That's a useful information. My small stone can handle all the gain though.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: NPD: EHX Silencer (4 cable method troubleshooting anyone?)

                                Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
                                The NS-2 is great.
                                I have 2. Lol
                                Looking forward. Still don't want to start saving for a Zuul

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