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Thread: Ibanez JEM and PIA

  1. #21
    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikH View Post
    I picked up a Diva to try out a while back and it plays and feels really nice. Felt solid. Saw that it is made in Indonesia and my first thought was it's overpriced.
    My thoughts exactly. I was horrified when I saw the price tag ($1500 street) of the Jiva after discovering it wasn't MIJ.

    My 7-string RG7321 is Indonesian and, to be fair, it's a stellar guitar from a playability standpoint, but it was under $400 new and is now worth something like $150 used.

    The Jiva will always hold its value a bit better being a signature model, but I can get a MIJ E-II ESP for the same price new. I'd rather pick up a used Herman Li sig, which is very similar to the Jiva and also made in Indonesia for $600, which is all they are going for now, despite being great guitars.

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
    Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
    You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.

    That's just silly.

    Larry

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
    Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
    You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.
    Oh, please do tell and educate us about your in-depth knowledge of the guitarbuilding industry!

    For starters, I haven't found a solidbody Epiphone that retails over 800 bucks. The most expensive I found is the Vivian Campbell signature LP and that axe is loaded to the brim with custom features (and is 850$, or 750 euro's). It has Dimarzio pickups and those, with OEM pricing, are around 35 bucks a piece; 70 a set. So there goes your story. It has a brass nut, which is much more difficult to cut than graphtech or even bone. Even basic woods would cost over 100 bucks for a guitar like that. So please, please, enlighten us and explain how you came to the glorious conclusion that an Epiphone only costs $30.

    (to break down the pricing in more general terms: divide the price you pay by three and you get an idea as to how much it would cost a manufacturer to make a guitar. The more expensive, though, the less that rule holds true; over 3000$ it's more like divide by four, but still... For that Vivian Campbell sig LP, it's 850 retail; that's approximately 280 to 300 dollars to make; they sell it for approximately 550 (+- $50) to a vendor and they sell that for 850, plus VAT. Only when you buy directly from the factory, the economics get skewed a bit, but who does that anyway nowadays? Only Kiesel and a few other small factories!).

  4. #24
    Super Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by orpheo View Post
    Oh, please do tell and educate us about your in-depth knowledge of the guitarbuilding industry!

    For starters, I haven't found a solidbody Epiphone that retails over 800 bucks. The most expensive I found is the Vivian Campbell signature LP and that axe is loaded to the brim with custom features (and is 850$, or 750 euro's). It has Dimarzio pickups and those, with OEM pricing, are around 35 bucks a piece; 70 a set. So there goes your story. It has a brass nut, which is much more difficult to cut than graphtech or even bone. Even basic woods would cost over 100 bucks for a guitar like that. So please, please, enlighten us and explain how you came to the glorious conclusion that an Epiphone only costs $30.

    (to break down the pricing in more general terms: divide the price you pay by three and you get an idea as to how much it would cost a manufacturer to make a guitar. The more expensive, though, the less that rule holds true; over 3000$ it's more like divide by four, but still... For that Vivian Campbell sig LP, it's 850 retail; that's approximately 280 to 300 dollars to make; they sell it for approximately 550 (+- $50) to a vendor and they sell that for 850, plus VAT. Only when you buy directly from the factory, the economics get skewed a bit, but who does that anyway nowadays? Only Kiesel and a few other small factories!).
    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite..._source=google


    .05 second google search ..... ever try google ? Do they have google in Europe ?

    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite...v-amos-natural

    Wanna know the difference between the $300 Epi & the $1500 Epi .... about $1200 bucks, thats it. You think as a consumer im making money posting here ? That im getting some kind of personal gain ?
    Not in the least. But i can tell you this : IM TRIED OF THE BULL**** AND TIRED OF GUITAR MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO RIPP ME OFF BY DECEPTIVE MARKETING.
    Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-04-2020 at 05:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite..._source=google


    .05 second google search ..... ever try google ? Do they have google in Europe ?

    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite...v-amos-natural

    Wanna know the difference between the $300 Epi & the $1500 Epi .... about $1200 bucks, thats it. You think as a consumer im making money posting here ? That im getting some kind of personal gain ?
    Not in the least. But i can tell you this : IM TRIED OF THE BULL**** AND TIRED OF GUITAR MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO RIPP ME OFF BY DECEPTIVE MARKETING.
    So you're backing off the '$30 to make' claim? Because I notice you didn't address it in any way?

    Larry

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    Mojo's Minions ErikH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Those outrageous prices are in USED listings, not new! Folks are trying to cash in on them thinking they actually increase in value. Sad thing is, somebody might pay that. You cannot use the $1200 argument on used instruments because the price is not set by the manufacturer at that point.

  7. #27
    Ultimate Tone Member Nagisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
    Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
    You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.
    Sorry for annoying you with common sense.
    I will be sure to ignore you in future conversations unless we run short on jaded, rambling commentary.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by larryguitar View Post
    So you're backing off the '$30 to make' claim? Because I notice you didn't address it in any way?

    Larry
    So you have experience working @ the Epi factory & China & know what they pay for labor & raw materials ?

    https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/...%C2%A550%2C799.

    Average China factory worker entry level salary = $4662 USD annually which is $338.5 bucks a month. Lets say a average Epi goes for $600 buck, they crank out 1200 guitars a week that $720,000 dollars a worker is making for Epiphone a week while Epi is paying that worker $85 bucks a week in labor ... seems fair right ?
    Im no Accountant or Economist but someone is making a killing exploiting cheap labor.
    Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-04-2020 at 09:24 AM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagisa View Post
    Sorry for annoying you with common sense.
    I will be sure to ignore you in future conversations unless we run short on jaded, rambling commentary.
    Certainly nobody making you read my post, you have that choice.

  10. #30
    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Calm down there, soldier.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Let's get back to the OP. And use the ignore function. If someone won't stop, use the 'report post' button. But let's get back to talking about the Italian grandmother-livingroom design of the PIA and JEM (I had an Italian grandmother).
    Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

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  12. #32
    of the Forum PFDarkside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    Let's get back to the OP. And use the ignore function. If someone won't stop, use the 'report post' button. But let's get back to talking about the Italian grandmother-livingroom design of the PIA and JEM (I had an Italian grandmother).
    Yes!

    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

  13. #33
    Super Toneologist The JEM Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Italian grandma or not, I still like the Floral Pattern a lot
    "You can buy muscles (steroïds), but you can't buy "cojones". (quoted: Bas Rutten)

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by The JEM Ghost View Post
    Italian grandma or not, I still like the Floral Pattern a lot
    It should come with a plastic protective cover so you don't 'ruin' it.
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    Mojo's Minions Masta' C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA



    So true!

  16. #36
    Mojo's Minions devastone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by The JEM Ghost View Post
    Italian grandma or not, I still like the Floral Pattern a lot
    I love the floral ones, it's the new PIA that has gone overboard tacky.

  17. #37
    Super Toneologist JMP/HBE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Mincer View Post
    It should come with a plastic protective cover so you don't 'ruin' it.
    I had grand-parents that had that plastic covering on the furniture. Everyone smoked no-filter tobacco. All the plastic/the whole house was yellow. It was gross.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by devastone View Post
    I love the floral ones, it's the new PIA that has gone overboard tacky.
    Agreed on the PIA bro!
    I've been an Ibanez fan since the early nineties, but since 2003 or so Ibanez has missed big time and screwing up more than once in my opinion.
    "You can buy muscles (steroïds), but you can't buy "cojones". (quoted: Bas Rutten)

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP/HBE View Post
    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite..._source=google


    .05 second google search ..... ever try google ? Do they have google in Europe ?

    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite...v-amos-natural

    Wanna know the difference between the $300 Epi & the $1500 Epi .... about $1200 bucks, thats it. You think as a consumer im making money posting here ? That im getting some kind of personal gain ?
    Not in the least. But i can tell you this : IM TRIED OF THE BULL**** AND TIRED OF GUITAR MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO RIPP ME OFF BY DECEPTIVE MARKETING.
    That guitar is no longer being made, the Richie Faulker V. Sorry buddy. Same for the Bonamassa. They were cheaper, a lot cheaper, when released but prices have gone up because of ...

    The market. people want them because they're rare, limited. Sorry dude, you're way off mark.

    And if you're tired by getting ripped off, that's because you're letting yourself to be ripped off. If you don't want to buy it, don't. Businesses aren't stupid, they price their goods according to what the market wants to pay. If you google Epiphone's now and see what's the most expensive production guitar they make now, that's not made in the USA, you get a guitar around 850-900 bucks. I did my homework, will you do that too and scream a bit less and think a bit more?

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    Default Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Masta' C View Post
    I can get a MIJ E-II ESP for the same price new.
    Make it 2k+.

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