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Ibanez JEM and PIA

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  • #16
    Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

    Years ago i got sucked into the Ibanez "JEM Jr." marketing. GC had one, i called ahead, wanted to demo it. They assured me they would have it ready. Now we can debate the virtues of GC all day long as i have 3 GC in my Metro and each of my 7 trips there the last 20 years have been more disappointing than the last in rapid succession.
    Anyway i get to GC and the JEM Jr is all the way at the top of a 2 story wall of guitars. I have to get someone with a ladder to get the guitar. The setup made the guitar unplayable as the bridge was tilted back 16 degrees. Anticipating this i brought a guitar case/strap/tuner/multi tool [guitar comes with no case as 85% do nowdays] After a 20 minute setup with my multi tool i have to find an amp & cord that work. After flagging down about 3 minimum wage workers named "Tristan" the JEM Jr was DOA after trying 3 different amps. No sound, no nothing.
    Absolutely the biggest clusterfeck buying experience ive ever had. Not to mention the guitar must be 3/4 scale & feels like a toy after playing Les Pauls for so many decades. Must weigh less than 5 pounds.
    I leave with my friend and the manager comes running out after us yelling "hey we got it working" .... amilike ah no thanks.

    Like i said CHEAPENS THE BRAND.

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    Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-03-2020, 11:27 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

      There is an argument to be made that any 'lower cost version' of a particular model can cheapen the brand. BC Rich and Kramer in the 80s experimented with this and it tanked them. Squier and Epiphone have been way more successful, but the key here is...it still needs to be a good, playable guitar.
      Administrator of the SDUGF

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      • #18
        Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

        Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post
        https://media.giphy.com/media/eykivHQOsXrmo/giphy.gif

        I buy guitars to play. I sell guitars that retain their value, that simple. Its called being smart after 40 years of buying/selling gear.
        If i want a guitar with a "monkey grip i'll break out my jigsaw & save $4K.

        Calling every guitar with a monkey grip out of Indonesia a JEM cheapens the brand. Its like calling every first responder/Military member a "Hero" just for wearing the uniform since 911 or giving every kid a Trophy just for showing up.
        That crackhead kid could not give away that new JEM on CL for $700 bucks, that ought to tell you something.
        Did you read what I wrote at all? Where did I say anything about the PIA or Indonesian guitars?

        High end Ibanez = j.custom.

        Signature guitars are what they are: a way to charge a premium.

        Back to my point, though - if you buy/sell guitars with any financial motive in mind and you do not run a store, you will eventually lose.

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        • #19
          Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

          I like some of the Ibanez models. I picked up a Jiva to try out a while back and it plays and feels really nice. Felt solid. Saw that it is made in Indonesia and my first thought was it's overpriced. Yes, it's a sig model and it's a really solid and nice guitar, but for the price of that new, I can get a new USA made Strat or a nice used Gibson. Heck, or even build a parts guitar with my specs from Warmoth (yes, I know resale value tanks for builds like that).
          Last edited by ErikH; 06-03-2020, 03:58 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

            Originally posted by Nagisa View Post
            Did you read what I wrote at all? Where did I say anything about the PIA or Indonesian guitars?

            High end Ibanez = j.custom.

            Signature guitars are what they are: a way to charge a premium.

            Back to my point, though - if you buy/sell guitars with any financial motive in mind and you do not run a store, you will eventually lose.
            Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
            Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
            You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.
            Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-03-2020, 10:01 AM.

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            • #21
              Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

              Originally posted by ErikH View Post
              I picked up a Diva to try out a while back and it plays and feels really nice. Felt solid. Saw that it is made in Indonesia and my first thought was it's overpriced.
              My thoughts exactly. I was horrified when I saw the price tag ($1500 street) of the Jiva after discovering it wasn't MIJ.

              My 7-string RG7321 is Indonesian and, to be fair, it's a stellar guitar from a playability standpoint, but it was under $400 new and is now worth something like $150 used.

              The Jiva will always hold its value a bit better being a signature model, but I can get a MIJ E-II ESP for the same price new. I'd rather pick up a used Herman Li sig, which is very similar to the Jiva and also made in Indonesia for $600, which is all they are going for now, despite being great guitars.

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              • #22
                Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post
                Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
                Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
                You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.

                That's just silly.

                Larry

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                • #23
                  Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                  Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post
                  Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
                  Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
                  You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.
                  Oh, please do tell and educate us about your in-depth knowledge of the guitarbuilding industry!

                  For starters, I haven't found a solidbody Epiphone that retails over 800 bucks. The most expensive I found is the Vivian Campbell signature LP and that axe is loaded to the brim with custom features (and is 850$, or 750 euro's). It has Dimarzio pickups and those, with OEM pricing, are around 35 bucks a piece; 70 a set. So there goes your story. It has a brass nut, which is much more difficult to cut than graphtech or even bone. Even basic woods would cost over 100 bucks for a guitar like that. So please, please, enlighten us and explain how you came to the glorious conclusion that an Epiphone only costs $30.

                  (to break down the pricing in more general terms: divide the price you pay by three and you get an idea as to how much it would cost a manufacturer to make a guitar. The more expensive, though, the less that rule holds true; over 3000$ it's more like divide by four, but still... For that Vivian Campbell sig LP, it's 850 retail; that's approximately 280 to 300 dollars to make; they sell it for approximately 550 (+- $50) to a vendor and they sell that for 850, plus VAT. Only when you buy directly from the factory, the economics get skewed a bit, but who does that anyway nowadays? Only Kiesel and a few other small factories!).

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                    Originally posted by orpheo View Post
                    Oh, please do tell and educate us about your in-depth knowledge of the guitarbuilding industry!

                    For starters, I haven't found a solidbody Epiphone that retails over 800 bucks. The most expensive I found is the Vivian Campbell signature LP and that axe is loaded to the brim with custom features (and is 850$, or 750 euro's). It has Dimarzio pickups and those, with OEM pricing, are around 35 bucks a piece; 70 a set. So there goes your story. It has a brass nut, which is much more difficult to cut than graphtech or even bone. Even basic woods would cost over 100 bucks for a guitar like that. So please, please, enlighten us and explain how you came to the glorious conclusion that an Epiphone only costs $30.

                    (to break down the pricing in more general terms: divide the price you pay by three and you get an idea as to how much it would cost a manufacturer to make a guitar. The more expensive, though, the less that rule holds true; over 3000$ it's more like divide by four, but still... For that Vivian Campbell sig LP, it's 850 retail; that's approximately 280 to 300 dollars to make; they sell it for approximately 550 (+- $50) to a vendor and they sell that for 850, plus VAT. Only when you buy directly from the factory, the economics get skewed a bit, but who does that anyway nowadays? Only Kiesel and a few other small factories!).
                    https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite..._source=google


                    .05 second google search ..... ever try google ? Do they have google in Europe ?

                    Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.


                    Wanna know the difference between the $300 Epi & the $1500 Epi .... about $1200 bucks, thats it. You think as a consumer im making money posting here ? That im getting some kind of personal gain ?
                    Not in the least. But i can tell you this : IM TRIED OF THE BULL**** AND TIRED OF GUITAR MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO RIPP ME OFF BY DECEPTIVE MARKETING.
                    Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-04-2020, 06:49 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                      Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post
                      https://reverb.com/p/epiphone-limite..._source=google


                      .05 second google search ..... ever try google ? Do they have google in Europe ?

                      Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.


                      Wanna know the difference between the $300 Epi & the $1500 Epi .... about $1200 bucks, thats it. You think as a consumer im making money posting here ? That im getting some kind of personal gain ?
                      Not in the least. But i can tell you this : IM TRIED OF THE BULL**** AND TIRED OF GUITAR MANUFACTURERS TRYING TO RIPP ME OFF BY DECEPTIVE MARKETING.
                      So you're backing off the '$30 to make' claim? Because I notice you didn't address it in any way?

                      Larry

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                      • #26
                        Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                        Those outrageous prices are in USED listings, not new! Folks are trying to cash in on them thinking they actually increase in value. Sad thing is, somebody might pay that. You cannot use the $1200 argument on used instruments because the price is not set by the manufacturer at that point.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                          Originally posted by JMP/HBE View Post
                          Anything that costs me money has a "financial motive". Stop being annoying.
                          Music gear is 90% bling & Marketing just like bicycles/motorcycles/autos/furniture & electronic devices and anything else on the planet. At some point people see thru all the spin & hype. But there's a sucker born every minute.
                          You go ahead & pay $1200 for an "Epi Custom Shop" guitar that costs less than $30 dollars to manufacture. No thanks buddy.
                          Sorry for annoying you with common sense.
                          I will be sure to ignore you in future conversations unless we run short on jaded, rambling commentary.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                            Originally posted by larryguitar View Post
                            So you're backing off the '$30 to make' claim? Because I notice you didn't address it in any way?

                            Larry
                            So you have experience working @ the Epi factory & China & know what they pay for labor & raw materials ?

                            https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/...%C2%A550%2C799.

                            Average China factory worker entry level salary = $4662 USD annually which is $338.5 bucks a month. Lets say a average Epi goes for $600 buck, they crank out 1200 guitars a week that $720,000 dollars a worker is making for Epiphone a week while Epi is paying that worker $85 bucks a week in labor ... seems fair right ?
                            Im no Accountant or Economist but someone is making a killing exploiting cheap labor.
                            Last edited by JMP/HBE; 06-04-2020, 10:24 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                              Originally posted by Nagisa View Post
                              Sorry for annoying you with common sense.
                              I will be sure to ignore you in future conversations unless we run short on jaded, rambling commentary.
                              Certainly nobody making you read my post, you have that choice.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Ibanez JEM and PIA

                                Calm down there, soldier.

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