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  • Stack Plus vs true single coil

    Hi,

    Does anyone know of any clips that compare a Stack Plus to their equivalent single... i.e. SSL-1 vs STK-S4, SSL-5 vs STK-S6, etc. I've found clips comparing them to modern Fender single coils and the stacks sound fuller with more bass and mids and less highs. But, in my experience, SSL-1s also sound fuller than Fender pickups.

    Asking because I'm getting ready to order an SSL-2/SSL-2/SSL-6 set for my '99 Am Std strat and noticed that getting the same setup in a Stack Plus wouldn't cost that much more. I'm hesitant to do so, however, based on my past experience with stacks. The best I've tried are the DiMarzio 2.1's and 2.2 (precursors to the Area 58 and 61) and they felt very compressed and held back, and didn't have the output of a true single (but they were a huge improvement over the HS-3 I tried years earlier.) I replaced them with SSL-1s and instantly fixed those issues, but had problems with the vintage stagger and couldn't adjust them low enough to fix the warble on the D and G strings.) I'm running the stock Delta Tone pickups now but miss the warmer sound of the SSL-1s.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

    It's impossible at this time to get 100% of the tone of a vintage Strat pickup in a hum cancelling design.

    That compression you heard with the DiMarzio is something I hear in every hum cancelling Strat pickup I've tried.

    The SSL-2's will give you hum-free performance in the #2 and #4 settings of a 5 way switch.

    If you can live with hum in the other three settings I think you'd be happier with the SSL-2/SSL-6 set you were originally considering.
    “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

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    • #3
      Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

      The Stack Plus is my favorite Strat pickup, period. It has slightly more power and rounder high end than an SSL-1, but not as much as the APS. But it is a beautiful Strat tone. I see no reason to go back to traditional single coils.
      Administrator of the SDUGF

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      • #4
        Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

        I cannot tell a difference bt the STK 4’s and true singles. But you can wire them to split the coils and have true singles Most stk 4 users don’t bother with it though bc the very minor gain in chime is offset by the hum. Not a favorable trade off bc the difference is so small.

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        • #5
          Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

          Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
          It's impossible at this time to get 100% of the tone of a vintage Strat pickup in a hum cancelling design.

          That compression you heard with the DiMarzio is something I hear in every hum cancelling Strat pickup I've tried.

          The SSL-2's will give you hum-free performance in the #2 and #4 settings of a 5 way switch.

          If you can live with hum in the other three settings I think you'd be happier with the SSL-2/SSL-6 set you were originally considering.
          Have you tried Kinmans. It’s possible


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

            Originally posted by Golem View Post
            Have you tried Kinmans. It’s possible


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            I have. They are excellent, as is the Duncan Classic Stack Plus.

            But anyone who says they sound and respond exactly like a vintage style Strat single coil is either a beginner or someone who hasn't spent enough time playing real Strat single coils.
            “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

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            • #7
              Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

              Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
              I have. They are excellent, as is the Duncan Classic Stack Plus.

              But anyone who says they sound and respond exactly like a vintage style Strat single coil is either a beginner or someone who hasn't spent enough time playing real Strat single coils.
              I don't know of anyone making that claim. To me, what the Classic Stack does, I like better than regular single coils.
              Administrator of the SDUGF

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              • #8
                Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                I've played Dimarzio's Area pickups and some Kinmans . . . and while they sound good, the high end isn't quite right. There's something in it that is muted or just different from what my ears want from a single coil. For me, it's mostly noticeable clean. If you play medium/high gain there's no difference that I can hear other than the lack of hum.
                Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

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                • #9
                  Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                  Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
                  But anyone who says they sound and respond exactly like a vintage style Strat single coil is either a beginner or someone who hasn't spent enough time playing real Strat single coils.
                  A few things that I'd like to underline:

                  1) IME, there's not such a thing as "Kinman's", generally speaking. His models with "aged" and "unaged" tones are based on different designs so it's not indifferent to know which ones are compared to real single coils.

                  2) Chris Kinman uses his own AlNiCo recipe. IME, his mags labelled "A5" exhibit the kind of Gauss reading that one would expect from A3... and the Kinman PU's hosting these mags often lean towards high inductance, which tends to confirm the similarity with A3 single coils.

                  Low Gauss reading is a bonus when it comes to avoid stratitis but it makes discussible any comparison between Kinman's and A5 single coils. apples and oranges, IMHO. A comparison to Bare Knuckle "Apache's" might be more instructive.

                  3) As with any passive transducer, the final result depends on the LRC filtering associated to the pickups. Whatever Chris Kinman recommends, I prefer his Strat stacks with a 500k volume control and/or a no load tone pot. That's how the "A3 kinda softness" can be compensated for more versatility.

                  I've also added other components and / or custom made LRC filters to mine and all the Kinman PU's still in my possession have been modified by me... but that's another story. :-)

                  Also, note that...

                  a) I've various guitars with real SC's, another one with swappable pickups + the related swappable "Ilitch coils"', and two other axes with regular SC's + other kinds of noise suppressing dummy coils.

                  c) my tonal benchmark when it comes to Strats is the real 1962 L Series that I've periodically here in maintenance: I've tested its pickups with lab gear and have compared them directly (musically / specs wise) with a bunch of aftermarket PU's (Kinman's and others).

                  The original pickups in this L Series Strat exhibit a few characteristics that I've NOT found in ANY replica. So I take with a high level of relativism the idea of essential differences between "advanced" stack designs and "the real thing": actual single coils compared to each others can be clearly different too.

                  IME. IMHO. AFAIK. YMMV. :-)
                  Duncan user since the 80's...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                    Good post. I never said they didn't sound good. Just not exactly like a vintage Strat. When I got sick a few years ago I lost a lot of my gear to pay medical bills. One casualty was my '63 Strat. I'd had it since before I moved to Colorado from Detroit so I'd had it since about 1975. But I spent 40 years with it, and at one time it was my only guitar. I'm extremely familiar with how those pickups sounded. When Evan sent me the Classic Stack Plus to evaluate, it was my '63 Strat I compared them to.
                    Last edited by Lewguitar; 06-05-2020, 09:52 AM.
                    “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                      I use Stack Plus models in my Strat with an STK-S7 in the neck (my favorite), an STK-S4m in the middle and an STK-S6 in the bridge; I also have a Bridge-On Switch for Neck + Bridge in position 5 and Neck + Middle + Bridge in position 4.

                      Are they exactly like Singles? No, but they're reasonably close; so close that, in a blind test, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference, unless you have a lot of experience with both. In my personal opinion, the benefits of less noise issues in general outweigh the slight tone variance for hum-cancelling single coil designs, provided they're close enough to a true single-coil sound.

                      But, if you want that true-blue single coil sound, my recommendation is to go with that option. If you want the practical benefits that come with using hum-cancelling designs that are "close enough", then I'd choose the Stacks or Kinmans.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                        i really like the stack plus models they sound great! i do hear a difference between a ssl1 and the cs+ for example but just cause i love my antiquitys doesnt mean i love the stacks less. just a little different flavor of strat

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                        • #13
                          Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                          Originally posted by Mincer View Post
                          The Stack Plus is my favorite Strat pickup, period.
                          I agree, except that I'd replace "period" with "comma." If you have provision for a 9-volt battery, the Livewire Classic II's do the same. And on that happy note, I hope the new webpage is incomplete, because it doesn't look like they make them anymore.

                          IMHO, the difference between the traditional SSL-1/2's, and pups like the STK's and Livewires, is very subtle. If you play your Strat straight to a clean amp, then I believe you can tell the difference. Add in any pedal, or amp "drive", and that subtleness goes out the window. Just my 2-cents worth.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                            That sounds very similar to my experience with the 2.1's and 2.2.

                            Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                            I've played Dimarzio's Area pickups and some Kinmans . . . and while they sound good, the high end isn't quite right. There's something in it that is muted or just different from what my ears want from a single coil. For me, it's mostly noticeable clean. If you play medium/high gain there's no difference that I can hear other than the lack of hum.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Stack Plus vs true single coil

                              I guess that the only real way to know if they'll work for me is to try them. Thanks everyone for all the responses.

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