Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

[pinto79]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

The beauty of the JCM800 is that is has the best base tone you could ask for (I know, I've owned 6 of them...)

Almost any OD/distortion pedal works with them to push them into any range you want. When dialed in right, they cut through ANYTHING.

I really miss mine... (*snif*)

I had one that had been previously owned by Bob Rock (Metallica producer) and it was positively the best amp I have EVER owned. I never should have loaned it out...

[Reckless Abandon]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I had a dsl and now I have a modded jcm 800. Out of the box the 800 is not going to have the amount of gain for metal unless you can crank it up even then it does not have a lot of gain but a nice growl. BUt modded the 800 is the most awesome thing ever. The added gain did not take the personality out of the 800. I suggest getting an 800 and having it modded. the clean is not perfect but i can roll down the volume even on my jb and get a decent clean.

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Hey people... sorry to bump this old thread, but I've been away for a time and I still have questions:

What's the Plexi? Are those the Vintage Series?

How much must they be cranked to sound good? I mean it's going right into my new flat... it can be load but not too extreme... Are the 50W Versions generaly warmer sounding?

Another thing... how much difference in wall penetration does a 2x12 vs a 4x12 cab make?

thanks

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Ah yes and what are the tonal differences between the 1959SLP and the 1987X?

thanks

[deftgala]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

there are a couple of deals on ebay for them right now... one guy from England is selling 'em

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

How much must they be cranked to sound good? I mean it's going right into my new flat... it can be load but not too extreme... Are the 50W Versions generaly warmer sounding?

Another thing... how much difference in wall penetration does a 2x12 vs a 4x12 cab make?

thanks

My old 77 non-MV JMP 100w had to be at 8 to sound "decent" but at that volume it was completely unusable for any practical application. The only way to use it in a "bedroom" setting is to go with an attenuator. I've heard the best attenuator for your amp is the Hotplate, it's a fully reactive load- from what I understand. While the JTM-45 reissues are supposed to be pretty cool, there's not a lot of volume (still louder than living room levels)- so you're getting a cool tone around 6, but there's not a lot of headroom between 6-10.

Are 50w generally warmer? I personally think so, just because you're able to push the 50 watts. For many years I lugged around 100w amps "just in case" I needed that extra volume, and I passed up a lot of really cool amps because they were "only" 50w. The only time I ever came close to needing 100w was at an outdoor frat party- but I would have been better served with another cabinet than cranking the amp's volume more. Another 100w issue is they're only like 12% louder than a 50w.

I prefer the sound of a 4x12. I haven't found a 2x12 that gets the full depth and "my sound" out of it.

[MikeS]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I prefer the sound of a 4x12. I haven't found a 2x12 that gets the full depth and "my sound" out of it.

Try loading a 4x12 cab with 2 12s. Theoretically, the additional volume (assuming a closed back cab) will deepen the low end response of the cab. The trade off is a slight loss of what you might refer to as "tightness." I'm not positive it'll work yet, but I am planning on testing it out this weekend.

edit: forgot to add... you'll need to close the other two holes by leaving two dummy speakers.

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I'm not trying to be snotty, but what's the point in pulling 2 speakers out of a 4x12?
You still have a full size cab and 85+ per cent of the weight.

Since you edited to close the holes- you're not worrying about the empty holes working as ports or destroying the "infinite baffle" of the sealed cab. But if you're going to go with the same volume of air inside a 4x12, the only thing you're trading off is the weight of 2 speakers.

I was in a band with a guitarist that went with 2 speakers in a 4x12. Two were blown or had most of the paper removed or just removed the speakers. It sounded like crap. Of course, even if he would have had the nicest cab and amp in the world it would have sounded like crap. He was playing a Gibson Sonex.

[MikeS]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I'm not trying to be snotty, but what's the point in pulling 2 speakers out of a 4x12?
You still have a full size cab and 85+ per cent of the weight.

Since you edited to close the holes- you're not worrying about the empty holes working as ports or destroying the "infinite baffle" of the sealed cab. But if you're going to go with the same volume of air inside a 4x12, the only thing you're trading off is the weight of 2 speakers.

I did say to close the holes... besides, the holes are much too large and not nearly long enough to act as ports. Instead, it's act like an open back cab. Additionally, sealed speaker enclosures are about as opposite as you can get from an infinite baffle (or free air). An open back cab would be an infinite baffle design. A sealed enclosure would only act as an infinite baffle if the volume of the cab (or in this case, half the volume) exceeded the VAS of the driver. It's possible that I could exceed the VAS of the driver. All that will do is effectively lower the power handling of the speaker, but not below the recommended rating (most peak and rms values are calculated for infinite baffle. As the ratio of volume/VAS decreases, the speaker's power handling capabilities actually increase). The resulting effect is that you double the volume to VAS when two speakers are cut out of the loop. Now, the reason your friend's cabinet sounded terrible likely has as mush to do with impedance mismatches as it does with volume. I should have added that I'm not disconnecting two speakers, but rather using (2) 8 ohm drivers in series for a 16 ohm load to match the output on the transformer.

In the end, you may very well be right that it won't sound the greatest. You'd be right, but not for the right reasons...

[Stevo]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I prefer the vintage Marshall tones but still think the DSL amps are pretty cool.
You can get nice nasty tone at low volume and very good clean tone. The tone is not as raw as the vintage Marshalls but not everyone wants those sounds.

I have had a Marshall 2203 JCM800, a JMP 2204 and now I have a 1987x plexi reissue. The plexi has the best clean tone of these 3 and I like the distortion when it's cranked. It is a little smoother than my 2204 when distorted. I use it with an attenuator, otherwise the volume would not be practical. You can buy a mini mass for $100.

With any Marshall, I highly recommend a 412 closed back cabinet with Celestion Greenbacks or similar speakers.

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Ok now... what's an attenuator, what does it look like, how much is it and where can I get it?
Sorry, I'm an amp n00b...

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Ok now... what's an attenuator, what does it look like, how much is it and where can I get it?
Sorry, I'm an amp n00b...

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

I did say to close the holes... besides, the holes are much too large and not nearly long enough to act as ports. Instead, it's act like an open back cab. Additionally, sealed speaker enclosures are about as opposite as you can get from an infinite baffle (or free air). An open back cab would be an infinite baffle design. A sealed enclosure would only act as an infinite baffle if the volume of the cab (or in this case, half the volume) exceeded the VAS of the driver. It's possible that I could exceed the VAS of the driver. All that will do is effectively lower the power handling of the speaker, but not below the recommended rating (most peak and rms values are calculated for infinite baffle. As the ratio of volume/VAS decreases, the speaker's power handling capabilities actually increase). The resulting effect is that you double the volume to VAS when two speakers are cut out of the loop. Now, the reason your friend's cabinet sounded terrible likely has as mush to do with impedance mismatches as it does with volume. I should have added that I'm not disconnecting two speakers, but rather using (2) 8 ohm drivers in series for a 16 ohm load to match the output on the transformer.

In the end, you may very well be right that it won't sound the greatest. You'd be right, but not for the right reasons...

Sorry for not getting back to you on Friday- I didn't get a chance to post until today and forgot about this thread!

I know you said to cover the holes- and I did misuse the term "infinite baffle." However, I'm pretty sure any size hole in a cabinet can be considered "porting." Whether it's the little 2" breather holes in the baffle, to a slot running the length or width of the cab drawn from the rear of the cab. (I had played around with the idea of replacing the baffle in my 2x12 and port it, I got a bunch of great reccomendations from a dude who works at some fancy pants cabinet manufacturer in Mass.)(No, I didn't do it- the baffle is actually built into the walls of the cab.)

As far as impedance mismatching causing poopy sound... One of my favorite (if not most volume managable) sounds was my 64 Bassman through my 16 Ohm Marshall 4x12. Of course I also used it with a 4 Ohm 2x12. Whenever I've used any of my Marshall or my Park heads through cabinets or combinations of cabs that weren't 16 ohms, I've had to rely on me remembering to change the impedance on the head, I was never reminded by the tone. All in all, a crappy carpet covered 4x12 with two speakers taken out is going to sound like poo gas mostly because it's got two big ol' holes in the face of it.

I can't think of a good, practical reason to go through the effort of yanking two speakers out of a 4x12 and plugging the holes. You're still left with a big, heavy box, with (roughly) half of your potential volume gone.

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Ok now... what's an attenuator, what does it look like, how much is it and where can I get it?
Sorry, I'm an amp n00b...

http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/hotplate.htm

[APB_4]

Re: Marshall JCM800 vs JCM2000 Series

Sorry for not getting back to you on Friday- I didn't get a chance to post until today and forgot about this thread!

I know you said to cover the holes- and I did misuse the term "infinite baffle." However, I'm pretty sure any size hole in a cabinet can be considered "porting." Whether it's the little 2" breather holes in the baffle, to a slot running the length or width of the cab drawn from the rear of the cab. (I had played around with the idea of replacing the baffle in my 2x12 and port it, I got a bunch of great reccomendations from a dude who works at some fancy pants cabinet manufacturer in Mass.)(No, I didn't do it- the baffle is actually built into the walls of the cab.)

As far as impedance mismatching causing poopy sound... One of my favorite (if not most volume managable) sounds was my 64 Bassman through my 16 Ohm Marshall 4x12. Of course I also used it with a 4 Ohm 2x12. Whenever I've used any of my Marshall or my Park heads through cabinets or combinations of cabs that weren't 16 ohms, I've had to rely on me remembering to change the impedance on the head, I was never reminded by the tone. All in all, a crappy carpet covered 4x12 with two speakers taken out is going to sound like poo gas mostly because it's got two big ol' holes in the face of it.

I can't think of a good, practical reason to go through the effort of yanking two speakers out of a 4x12 and plugging the holes. You're still left with a big, heavy box, with (roughly) half of your potential volume gone.

I think the idea is to get the tone of a 4x12 cab without the volume increase of the two extra speakers. Also he could just disconnect the speakers thereby having the sealing with no need to remove the speakers.