EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

[JB6464]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Lets not forget changing the speakers on that EL84 amp and how Hard you drive them will make a big difference in bass frequencies.
A EVM12L speaker will make a Celestion speaker sound like a buzz box when driven to band levels.

[eggman]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Howdy,

All I can offer is this: My 18 watt (EL84 duet) Dr. Z Carmen Ghia is the best amp for out and out raunch I've ever played. The low-volume chimey clean tones are a pleasant surprise, too. Good luck!

PS: With my Duncan Vintage Soapbar-loaded LP Special, my Ghia is completely nasty! Just picture Halle Berry in fishnet stockings and a mini-skirt.

[LtKojak]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

The VOX AC30 uses a quartet of EL-84s.

I don't think it lacks treble, as one of the posters said.

Anyway, what you hear is the combo preamp/amp/speaker. Changing any of those would alter the tone immensely.

Anyway, if the amp muds up past three in bass, that's the tone stack's DESIGN that makes it sound that way.

I have a three-channel boutique tube amp based on the VOX AC30 output section. The CLEAN channel is modeled after a Blackface. The CRUNCH channel after a Plexi and the DRIVE channel after a JCM. No mud in any of the distortion channels, no matter how much gain I use, and I've got enough both highs and lows in the clean channel that it never gets muddy nor ear-piercing. That's the mark of a good amp design.

HTH,

[Luke Duke]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

AGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!;

ZOMBIE THREAD ZOMBIE THREAD!!!

Guys, this thread is 6 years old!

[USAPatriot]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

AGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!;

ZOMBIE THREAD ZOMBIE THREAD!!!

Guys, this thread is 6 years old!

I was 6 years old too...49 years ago. I'd like to think I'm still useful on occasion -Rod-

[USAPatriot]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Back on topic here...

I have a Blackstar HT40 and am getting getting to replace the EL-34's. I'm dumping the TAD's and probably getting Tungsol EL-34-B's. My bias voltage, by specs, is to be 50mv, but what happens if I drop it to 25-30mv?

My problem is that we got burned out of our home in August, are in an apartment temporarily, and I just can't turn this amp up enough to get the tone I want without the neighbors on the otherside of the wall hearing it. My thinking is that maybe I should temporarily configure the amp as a 25w which would (hopefully) allow me to push the master volume and gain channel without the volume. I get that I'll lose some bass but in this dinky room I've set up as a studio, bass isn't much of an issue and the HT has a lot of bass response. So, can I get what I want by dropping my bias voltage and most importantly, are there any consequences to the circuits? It's not like I'm overclocking, rather underclocking, but sometimes that's not a good thing either. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks -Rod-

[Angelfire]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Basically the el-34's give you the classic marshall tone everyone knows of. The el-84's are a completely different type of tone, not close to the marshall tone.

It's funny because the 1987X uses EL84 and the "classic marshall" JTM45 uses 5881 tubes. None of the "old classics" actually used el34's.. Well, the 800 did, but by then they already had master and pre-gain knobs.

[Angelfire]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

AGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!;

ZOMBIE THREAD ZOMBIE THREAD!!!

Guys, this thread is 6 years old!

Damn.. and I'm just here drunk. Didnt notice it. Thanks.

[JeffB]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

It's funny because the 1987X uses EL84s.

Its really funny because you are completely wrong.

Marshall switched to EL34s within 4 years (edit- too early for math), once the SS rectified amps 1987/1959, bass versions, etc) became the defacto Marshall heads. The majority of classic marshall amps of the 60s, 70, and most of the eighties (barring US imports) used el34s.

[Mr. B]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

To me:

El84 = Classic Vox tones

El34 = Classic Marshall tones

6L6 = Classic Fender tones

Those original Marshall DSL EL84 combos sounded more like a Vox AC15 to me.
The newer version (DSL40c) with EL34's sounds more like a Marshall.

[Myaccount876]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Seriously, third time?

Thread:

[ItsaBass]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

The EL34 and EL84 tonal differences are irrelevant. They aren't interchangeable.

[GilmourD]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

The EL34 and EL84 tonal differences are irrelevant. They aren't interchangeable.

Unless you use a Yellow Jacket.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[hermetico]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

The EL34 and EL84 tonal differences are irrelevant. They aren't interchangeable.

Wait!.
In some amps, this isn't true.
VHT has several amps that allow you to throw the most common power tubes (EL84, 6V6GT, 6L6, EL34, KT66, ...).
So... differences are relevant... sometimes.

To me, they are somewhat similar, or at least closer one to the other than any of those compared to the "american way" (6V6GT, 6L6).
Compared to those, they have less boomy or big low end, more prominent mids or mid-highs and a direct cut-the-mix sound. They naturally put your guitar on the mix.
Differences are bigger, the hotter you run both tubes.
The EL34 has some bite (attack) more explosive than the EL84 and its harmonics are more complex and 3D-like.
I love the crunchy-warm EL84 in Class A design and, EL34 delivering big stadium rock in Class A/B design.

Said this. Everything makes no sense by itself.
Amp design is key. Tubes you choose for pre-amp, power amp and rectifier (if a tube one) make a big difference.
Tube brand/model behave very differently.
Speakers and cabs make a huge difference...

Usually each amp designed for a certain tube, will sound awesome if you find the right brand/model.
At the end, it's all about which power do you really need and, how you can crank the tubes (were they deliver their own spice).
Running those tubes cold, will sound very close (bored, lifeless) so, go for the power you can hold.

[MKWGuitar]

Re: EL84 v.s. El34 - TONAL differences

Wattage plays a big role on how and when the tubes will break up.
A good example is Friedman Runt series.
The runt 20 is equipped with EL84’s but it’s bigger brother, the runt 50 has EL34’s
Listen to both and see if you can spot the difference.

Tho some characteristic of a tube influence the sound for sure, an amp sound is always a sum of all of its parts.

Hope this helps...
Cheers!


MKW Guitar
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