question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

[ledzepp29]

i've been playing for three years and since i am 14 an only work at publix, i don't own an all tube amp (just an avt which has one ecc34 and solid state)
when i get enough money i would like to get a marshall half stack either a jubilee off ebay or a 59 reissue or 50 watt dsl. but my question is how often do tubes "crap out"? and when this happens the tube must be replaced, right?i'm guessing its like a light bulb. haha. and how much do tubes cost to replace? and how do you know if an amp has crapped out, sound, appearance of tubes? answering these questions would help alot. and also i recently learned that amps like the 59 reissue don't have preamps, which means it doesn't have built in distortion, and that means you have to crank the volume, right? so if you were playing in your bedroom this amp would be worthless for distortion, correct me if i'm wrong. so you would have to use a pedal while using this amp. and if you would like to recommend any other amps (preferably marshall or good tube amp, not to expensive) that would be awesome. o ya one more question, would buying a good used amp be ok because the money i can save th better. sorry for asking so many freakin questions just answer the ones you want. thanks alot

[beandip]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

The only real way to tell if tubes are going bad is to replace them to see if you can hear a difference. Since tubes deterorate at a slow rate, the more you play, the more you become accustomed to it, and the harder it is to tell.

[Hellion]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

Tubes start to deteriorate as soon as you start to use them and it's such a gradual process that it's hard to say. It depends on how hard you use them and how often they get turned on and off (that's why tube amps have a "standby switch"), etc. There's a definite loss of definition when it's time to replace them.

[ledzepp29]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

wow, that sucks haha how often should tou replace them

[beandip]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

I would say that every month or so, pop in your spare tubes and see if you can hear a difference.

[59paul]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

Hi LedZepp. You are correct in your anaolgy of a tube being similar to a light bulb. The tubes we use in tube amps are called " vacum tubes ". As you use the amp, you are consuming the tubes. Usually, your Power tubes will last 6 months to a year, depending on how hard you push the amp. Playing at high volumes for long periods of time will consume tubes quicker than if you were playing at lower volumes. If you use an attenuator, so you can crank the amp, but still have " bedroom " volume, you will consume the tubes faster, also. Some signs of worn or dying tubes are :
** The amp looses punch, looses volume, and generally seems as if it has the flu.
**The most common tip off of dying pre-amp tubes are a high pitch microphonic squeal.
As far as buying a used amp, it's ok. I would recommend buying from a reputable shop or an individual that you know has taken care of the amp, and play the amp before you buy it.

I would suggest that you start looking around, and start playing some different model Marshall Tube amps.
Also, keep in mind, the more tubes that are in the amp, the more $$$ you will need to spend when it comes time to replace tubes, so, buy an amp that suits your needs. No since wasting $$ on something you don't need.
One last thing > some amps need re-biased when tubes are changed. This is kind of like adjusting the Idle on a car. Make sure you know if the amp you buy needs biased, as you will need to take it to a tech and have them do this. Most all of the older Marshall Models need re-biased when changing tubes. For instance, I play 1982 Marshall's, and I always re-bias the Heads when changing tubes.
Hope this Helps.......

[Maggot]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

Tubes really don't burn out that often. Preamp tubes, which are small but expensive, hardly ever burn out. Power amp tubes burn out once every 6 months or so if you use the amp a ton, every year if you use the amp frequently, and less often if you use the amp less frequently. In practice, you can probably go longer. There are plenty of vintage Fender amps that still have their original tubes and sound fine.

A matched pair of EL-34 Tubes costs about $25, so once you get the thing, tube cost won't be prohibitive, although you may need to get the amp biased by a tech when you change tubes, which'll cost you a bit.

When power tubes burn out, they sound kind of cruddy and undefined.

All amps have preamps, but not necessarily preamps that distort. Any full-size Marshall will sound awful in your bedroom, unless you have a very loud bedroom. If you plan to play shows or blow away your friends, then any of these amps should sound great, although you'll still probably need either a pedal or attenuator to get extreme crunch at any non-deafening volume out of a 59.

If you're really just practicing alone, any small tube amp will sound more like a Marshall stack than an actual Marshall stack would, because you'd get to crank it. I wouldn't put too much stock in my suggestions, but here they are I've played lots of little tiny tube amps from the 50s and 60s that got excellent distortion noises when you cranked them. For a higher tech option try a Soldano Astroverb, which is a 20-watt 1 X 12 amp that actually gets loud enough to play with a band, but also sounds decent at lower volumes and has preamp distortion.

If you go the big Marshall route, I love the Jubilees, although they don't distort that much.

[ledzepp29]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

alright, you guys answered all of my questions but made me think of one last one. what does biased mean and how do you say that too, i don't want to sound like a moron. lol by the way the reason i need a stack is me and my friends are starting a band and trying to get gigs lined up so i need something reliable and good sounding. i also do jam sessions with different people at my friends dads studio. the avt combo is a good amp but i am sure i would benifit from a half stack more. thanks

[59paul]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

Bias ( by-uss )
To keep it simple, biasing is just an adjustment made inside the amp, to ensure that the tubes are operating at their optimum level. If the bias is too "hot", it could damage the amp. If the bias is too "cold", you wont get the full output of the amp. It is also important to always use " Matched" Power tubes. Matched tubes work well together, instead of working against each other ( Just a simplified explanation ). Most power tubes these days are sold in either matched duets ( 2 tubes), or matched quartets( 4 tubes ). Generally, amps under 100 watts usually use 2 power tubes, while those 100 watts and above use 4 ( or sometimes more ) power tubes. My 1982 Marshall JCM 800's are 50 watts, so they use 2 power tubes. And you're not a moron. That's what this place is for, to ask questions and learn. You're right on track !!!............

[mongrollo]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

I just want to warn you to be carefull with the volume. I have a hearing problem due to use a 50 watts amp in my bedroom. I used to live with my parents in a house outside town so volume wasn't a problem.

This amps can deliver very high volumen. I know it is a piss because the ideal it is to have a small amp (10-15 watts) to practice alone and with play with your band (yes they have enought volume). And then a bigger one (50 watt or more) to play live. If your group has a mix console and a PA you could consider buying a small amp and a good microphone to play live thru the PA.

[flank]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

yeah guys.....really nice info above about the tubes, they gave ya pretty much everything you are going to have to know...

but, im with mongrollo on this one.......if your thinkin of the reissue 59 (as well as the Jubillee and the DSL, but they have master volumes)......to get the sweet natural overdrive, its is going to be LOUD.....i mean LOUD, your ATV wont be able to touch the volume this thing will put out......... im just warning you, if you say you will be in a studio, havin a huge monster amp is not very ideal......only playin pretty big lives shows where you can open it up is where its gonna help you... nd i suppose you could get a real nice overdrive pedal and put it in front of it, but once you hear that thing cranked and the real overdrive it will put out, it just wont be the same......

im just warning you about volume levels, they can sometimes be more of a problem than you would ever think they would be

[mongrollo]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

yeah! I have an ENGL thunder 50 (50 watts) and, if i have the gain a 6 o'clock clean chanel, I barely go up 1-2 with the master when I play with my band. This things are fncking loud!!!!

(But sounds like nothing else..., that's way i love it!!!)

[SoCalSteve]

Re: question about tube amps...don't laugh at me. lol

Don't overlook the new Traynors. They sound great. They also solve two of your problems.

1. They are auto-biasing. Plug and play new tubes.
2. They have a master volume as well as channel volume. You can get great distortion at very low levels. I do everyday in my room.