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  • Has modelling "topped out"?

    Been a few NAMM shows now, and really nothing new at all on the modelling front from any of the big boys...Line6, Vox, Roland


    we've seen a few more floor versions from line 6 (XTL, that new Floor POD) and a "re-vamp" of the Spiders..which is pretty laughable as its just full of "pre-sets" now. I A/B'ed a Spider II 30w, vs the Spider III 30w, and tonally..no difference.

    Vox hasn't done really ANYTHING..we got the Da5/15 all digital models last year..and a 100w head in the lower priced line..but..eh...thats nothing really new...

    Roland re-vamped the "cube" series recently..but they are basically the same amps with a power squeezer for better tone at low volumes...the GT8 added alot of versatilty and features...but again nothing new on the actual modelling front..

    so has it topped out? What could be next? Will modelling die a slow death and be relegated to the bedroom/budget amp, and easy at home recording market? Or is the next breakthrough on the horizon?

    Discuss...
    I'm an internet person. All we do is waste time evaluating things that have next-to-zero real world significance.

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  • #2
    Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

    This may sound like blasphemy, but I believe that eventually modeling will be good enough to replace tube.

    It may have gotten to it's 'best' for a few years to come though, you never know when the next big breakthrough will come for it.. it may be at next years NAMM, it might be in 20 years.
    Originally posted by BigAlTheBird
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    • #3
      Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

      I think they've kind of hit a point with it where it's difficult with current technology to improve on what's out there now. While the technological breakthrough that will be the next big "Wow!" is in the works, we'll see more affordable stuff with a lot more crap packed in it. Maybe more companies doing the "digital + a 12AX7" thing, too.

      Topped out, though? No. I think before too long, somebody's gonna ape the feel-aspect that's missing from current stuff, and tubes won't be as important anymore. There's obviously always gonna be a hardcore market for them (look at records.... who'd have thought they'd have survived this long?), but they won't be considered the only "real" way to go.
      “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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      • #4
        Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

        nah- we are in the baby steps of what can be done with computers and modeling. who knows, you might be able to have a 'blank' amp and guitar, and virtually build all components from pickups to transformers and downl;oad it all to your gear. you could at least experiment with different sounds without having to do major rebuilding or pickup swapping..

        how about a virtual pickup? you could download the characteristics of actual pickups to it- Line6 has started this idea, but they use generic single coils and HBs...
        In any case, I can see it all heading this way.
        Administrator of the SDUGF

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        • #5
          Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

          Considering all the amps everyone whorships around here as "the best modelers" sound like piss to me...

          I would agree with the statement that modelling has topped out, in the bad way.

          And solid states will never sound anything like tubes. So don't get your hopes up. Sure a JC120 or an old randall 100 watt sounds great, but they don't sound like tube amps. And those are some of the best sounding solid states I know of, considering their age I would say solid state technology has de-evolved lol.
          Last edited by Mephis; 12-13-2006, 11:21 PM.
          Carvin custom strat (P-Rails/hotrails/single - Tuned Eb) -> Pod XT - - 6505+ Halfstack

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          • #6
            Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

            Originally posted by Mephis View Post
            Considering all the amps everyone whorships around here as "the best modelers" sound like piss to me...

            I would agree with the statement that modelling has topped out, in the bad way.
            So, because you dislike modelling, it's advanced as far as possible? I don't like to eat at Crackerbarrel, but that doesn't mean they're never going to offer more food choices in the future.
            “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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            • #7
              Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

              It's good enough for me. But the geek police never sleeps, so someone will one up it once again.

              People will still complain though, probably before they even try it. Hell, I'll kick it off right now: Those new modellers that just came out in 2012 really suck.

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              • #8
                Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                well, i guess they still come out with tube amps that suck too, as well as SS ones, yet there are more choices than ever. the great thing about it is that if someone doesn't like modeling, they have lots of other choices. i think its great that we have retro thinking companies as well as ones pushing the technology.
                Administrator of the SDUGF

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                • #9
                  Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                  The GT-8 is leaps and bounds better in terms of features and sound quality than its predecessor. Trust me, I've been on Roland modeling since the VF-1 (rack version of the GT-3).

                  Has modelling topped out?

                  Not by a long shot.

                  Mephis, modellers might sound like piss to you, but that's just opinion. To be honest, 5150's have always sounded like a bag of ass. Different strokes.

                  Do the tones I get from my rig nail the sound of the amps I'm modelling? Sometimes.

                  Do they sound good for what I use them for? Always.

                  When soundmen,audience members, and guitarists using high end amps walk up and ask what amps I'm using, they don't believe the tones I get are coming from a floorboard.

                  It's getting that close.
                  Ain't nothin' but a G thang, baby.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                    Originally posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
                    So, because you dislike modelling, it's advanced as far as possible? I don't like to eat at Crackerbarrel, but that doesn't mean they're never going to offer more food choices in the future.


                    Before we start talking about how much ass crackerbarrel kicks, lets actually stay on topic.

                    I have yet to hear a single modeler that sounds as tonally/harmonicly/dynamicly rich as a cheap tube amp. I have heard a few SS amps that were not modelers that sound damn good though.
                    Carvin custom strat (P-Rails/hotrails/single - Tuned Eb) -> Pod XT - - 6505+ Halfstack

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                    • #11
                      Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                      Now that I think of it, isn't "Have tube amps topped out?" a more valid question?

                      What have companies done that's really new in that arena?
                      Ain't nothin' but a G thang, baby.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                        Originally posted by Benjy_26 View Post
                        The GT-8 is leaps and bounds better in terms of features and sound quality than its predecessor. Trust me, I've been on Roland modeling since the VF-1 (rack version of the GT-3).

                        Has modelling topped out?

                        Not by a long shot.

                        Mephis, modellers might sound like piss to you, but that's just opinion. To be honest, 5150's have always sounded like a bag of ass. Different strokes.

                        Do the tones I get from my rig nail the sound of the amps I'm modelling? Sometimes.

                        Do they sound good for what I use them for? Always.

                        When soundmen,audience members, and guitarists using high end amps walk up and ask what amps I'm using, they don't believe the tones I get are coming from a floorboard.

                        It's getting that close.
                        But aren't you using a tube poweramp with your GT-8?
                        Carvin custom strat (P-Rails/hotrails/single - Tuned Eb) -> Pod XT - - 6505+ Halfstack

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                        • #13
                          Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                          Originally posted by Benjy_26 View Post
                          Now that I think of it, isn't "Have tube amps topped out?" a more valid question?

                          What have companies done that's really new in that arena?
                          Carvin custom strat (P-Rails/hotrails/single - Tuned Eb) -> Pod XT - - 6505+ Halfstack

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                          • #14
                            Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                            Originally posted by Mephis View Post
                            Before we start talking about how much ass crackerbarrel kicks, lets actually stay on topic.

                            I have yet to hear a single modeler that sounds as tonally/harmonicly/dynamicly rich as a cheap tube amp. I have heard a few SS amps that were not modelers that sound damn good though.
                            That's not on topic. The topic is whether modelling has reached it's pinnacle, not whether or not it's worth a crap to begin with.
                            “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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                            • #15
                              Re: Has modelling "topped out"?

                              Yeah, I think it has. To me, modelling has always been one of those things that's just not for me. I used to hate it, but now I just don't care for it.

                              Besides, our ears are remarkably accurate. We don't hear in digital, we hear in analog, and it's not one line that the info goes to our brain on: it's each hair in our inner ear sending its own nerve to the brain, so we hear in sort of "parallel analog". The quality of our own hearing is vastly superior to what most, if not all, modelling on the market does.

                              Most modelling is in "CD quality" 16bit or 24bit. I have used some modelling before, and it was decent, but not what I was after. I prefer to have one amp type and multiple effects and then one guitar anyways, so this is all just my opinion.

                              EDIT: modelling can't really "top out" in the sense that they can always try higher-powered, faster, more accurate computerized simulations of these amps, but when you plug into, say, a Line 6 and set for a clean tube amp, yet it sounds worse than an actual clean tube amp, I find fault. This is why I bought a ME-50 rather than a GT-8 or GT PRO.
                              Last edited by Robert Delahunt; 12-14-2006, 12:02 AM.
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