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The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

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  • #91
    Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

    Here are my thoughts:
    • The JB "formula" probably hasn't changed since it became a formal production model, which is what I believe Evan is alluding to, but we know that the individual components used in the JB recipe have certainly changed over time, sort of like swapping the brand of chocolate chips in your favorite cookie recipe. You're still using chocolate chips, and putting in the same amount as you did before, so it's still very much "your cookie recipe", but the taste can change slightly, especially as more components are swapped out over time (flour, sugar, brand of butter, etc).
    • There is far more variation in the very early pickups made in the '70s than we see beginning in the '80s. You simply don't see the degree of mis-matched coils and lower DCR readings in JB's once you hit the '80s
    • In my opinion, the "JBJ is best" argument doesn't speak so much to the winder as it does to the particular generation of pickups in which the "JBJ" was common. A "JB-M", "JBL", "JBP", etc all use the same parts and were wound on the same machines. HOWEVER, you can find "JBJ" pickups produced from the early '80s through the early '90s, so that's quite a range.
    • Roughcast mags were only found in the earliest JB's. Once the '80s got rolling, roughcast went out the window. 99% of all pickups we know as "JBJ" models have polished mags, not roughcast. I have verified this to as early as 1981/82 in some cases. By 1983, with the introduction of the large logo baseplate, roughcast was a true rarity.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

      Originally posted by JB6464 View Post
      And gullible .
      The guitar industry is similar to the fitness and health industry.

      Mostly hucksters trying to convince you that you are less of an individual or player if you don't use their solution.
      “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

        Originally posted by NegativeEase View Post
        The guitar industry is similar to the fitness and health industry.

        Mostly hucksters trying to convince you that you are less of an individual or player if you don't use their solution.
        When it comes to humbuckers, learning about magnet swapping and how every Alnico magnet sounds in your favorite pickup is THE solution for finding the pickup sound we all as individuals are looking for.

        For me that's a roughcast A3 in either an Antiquity, Seth Lover or 59 neck pickup, and a roughcast A2 in an Antiquity, Seth Lover or 59 bridge pickup.

        A stock set of Antiquitys is fine too!
        “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

          Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post
          I think whether the A5 magnet is roughcast or polished or degaussed is the "secret sauce" that makes otherwise identical pickups like the JB sound slightly different from each other.
          Originally posted by Aceman View Post
          And here is - at best - according to me - the only thing that *might* make a difference.

          JB
          sand-cast polished alnico 5 bar magnets
          Antiquity JB
          hand-aged roughcast alnico V magnet, custom degaussed
          35th Anniversary JB
          rough-cast alnico 5 magnets
          Early production JB
          rough-cast alnico 5 magnets
          Concept Set
          and Alnico-II in the bridge
          No. The winds are different. My JB/Seth is hotter than my JBJ. Also the Ant doesn't have a roughcast A5 it has a smooth A5.
          The things that you wanted
          I bought them for you

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

            Originally posted by Aceman View Post

            Just saying that once upon a time, Gibson decided to switch to Long v Short Tenon necks. Why? Easier build, cheaper. Did they build a short tenon and play it next to a long tenon and go "You know, feels the same, sounds the same, sustains the same." I bet they did. Years later, geeks find out and decide completely arbitrarily that long > short.
            Wasn't that because of neck stability as the short tenons were ending underneath an "empty" pickup cavity? I understood that they were originally designed for single pickup designs with a big chunk of wood around the tenon. In the case of guitars with a neck pickup, the tenon just extends underneath the "empty" pickup cavity instead.


            Sent from my Redmi Note 8 using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

              Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
              No. The winds are different. My JB/Seth is hotter than my JBJ. Also the Ant doesn't have a roughcast A5 it has a smooth A5.
              You don't know what you're talking about

              From Duncan:

              Each Antiquity JB humbucker is hand built with the same original materials that we used to make them in the 70s, including long legged nickel silver bottom plate, maple spacer, original JB model stamp, rough sand cast alnico 5 bar magnet, heavily aged butyrate bobbins, and vintage style push-back braided single conductor lead wire

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                Lots of good information and insight shared here. When it comes to the clips, I offer this tip..... DO NOT COMPRESS TO MP3 and upload it to a YouTube video or anything else like that. If you want to hear as best of a source as you can, cut small clips and save them as uncompressed WAV files. Put them on Google Drive or Dropbox and share from there. Short clips, like 1 minute at most. Keep them clean, as in no distortion or drive whatsover, maybe one with mid-saturation and one with a little "more".

                I'll be curious how these clips come out. IME between a JB from the mid to late 80's and one from the 2000's, there was definitely a sound and feel difference. The 80's JB had a spongier and more open feel to it. The newer one had more the common upper-mid spike which seemed to take away from the glory of the rest of the spectrum. It simply seemed "off spec" for lack of a better explanation. That's my interpretation. I'd really like to hear some real life work with the Antiquity JB for my own curiosity.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                  Yeah sure, guy. When I examined the A5 from my Ant, it was smooth. Post a video of you unwrapping the factory tape to reveal an A5 with bumps then make arrogant comments. Fwiw, other pups which Duncan or other people claim have rough mags but that I got smooth mags in are the Whole Lotta and Antiquity Humbucker.
                  Last edited by Clint 55; 06-02-2020, 04:25 PM.
                  The things that you wanted
                  I bought them for you

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                    Well, that would be blatantly false advertising on the part of Seymour Duncan. Not saying it can't/hasn't happened, but it's a bit surprising, especially when the claim is that the pickup is made to original 1970s specifications

                    Comment


                    • Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                      I get the feeling Duncan is like that lol! Not saying I know what mag is in every pickup but my guess is that what I got is how they're producing them.
                      The things that you wanted
                      I bought them for you

                      Comment


                      • Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                        Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
                        Yeah sure, guy. When I examined the A5 from my Ant, it was smooth. Post a video of you unwrapping the factory tape to reveal an A5 with bumps then make arrogant comments. Fwiw, other pups which Duncan or other people claim have rough mags but that I got smooth mags in are the Whole Lotta and Antiquity Humbucker.
                        Did you buy them used?

                        Also note, I’ve bought/seen roughcast mags that were not entirely rough.

                        I confirmed the information I posted with certain folks in the company who put these models together.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                          No, they were all new. I also inspected the mags pretty thoroughly to see if I could call them rough but they were absolutely smooth. My Ant JB and WLH had smooth mags. While my Ant Humbucker's mag was smooth but beat up with a few chips and rounded edges. I thought that was cool and could possibly affect the sound in addition to the degaussing.
                          Last edited by Clint 55; 06-03-2020, 02:20 AM.
                          The things that you wanted
                          I bought them for you

                          Comment


                          • The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                            Does everyone remember what Coca-Cola tastes like? There’s only one, right?

                            Comment


                            • Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                              Originally posted by Masta' C View Post
                              Here are my thoughts:
                              • The JB "formula" probably hasn't changed since it became a formal production model, which is what I believe Evan is alluding to, but we know that the individual components used in the JB recipe have certainly changed over time, sort of like swapping the brand of chocolate chips in your favorite cookie recipe. You're still using chocolate chips, and putting in the same amount as you did before, so it's still very much "your cookie recipe", but the taste can change slightly, especially as more components are swapped out over time (flour, sugar, brand of butter, etc)
                              • ** Looks to me most of the changes were the bag, not the chocolate...

                              • There is far more variation in the very early pickups made in the '70s than we see beginning in the '80s. You simply don't see the degree of mis-matched coils and lower DCR readings in JB's once you hit the '80s
                              And we will check that...

                            • In my opinion, the "JBJ is best" argument doesn't speak so much to the winder as it does to the particular generation of pickups in which the "JBJ" was common. A "JB-M", "JBL", "JBP", etc all use the same parts and were wound on the same machines. HOWEVER, you can find "JBJ" pickups produced from the early '80s through the early '90s, so that's quite a range.
                            And they were all wound on the same machines to the same specs.

                          • Roughcast mags were only found in the earliest JB's. Once the '80s got rolling, roughcast went out the window. 99% of all pickups we know as "JBJ" models have polished mags, not roughcast. I have verified this to as early as 1981/82 in some cases. By 1983, with the introduction of the large logo baseplate, roughcast was a true rarity.


                          • Not enough of a magnet guru to speak to rough vs smooth overall differences in a pup that hot. We will see...
                            Originally posted by Bad City
                            He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                            Comment


                            • The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

                              You’re forgetting wire batches and min/nom/max. That’s in the recipe, not the bag. Of course, this experiment won’t get at those details because it can’t.

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