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  • New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

    So - the singer went and got a nut cut for the bottom 4 strings of a 5 string set.

    Thus there is basically 130 low B, E, D, and G string on this bass now. It is usually tuned to Eb.

    First - it sounds really cool! has a neat chime to each note on the two fat strings!

    But - will this be ok for the neck???
    Originally posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

  • #2
    Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

    Are you tuning the 130 to Eb?
    Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
    Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
    Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
    Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
    Line 6 Helix
    Dunlop Strings and Picks

    The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

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    • #3
      Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

      Originally posted by Johnny the Kid View Post
      Are you tuning the 130 to Eb?
      Or lower, but mostly Eb
      Originally posted by Bad City
      He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

        Originally posted by Aceman View Post
        Or lower, but mostly Eb
        As I said in the other thread, it can lead to issues. You can try it though.
        Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
        Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
        Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
        Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
        Line 6 Helix
        Dunlop Strings and Picks

        The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

          Dont you mean B-E-A-D?

          Ive had the thick 4 strings of a 5 string set (Ernie Ball 135's iirc), tuned either B or C (mostly B) on a 4 string since like 2011... no neck issues.

          Then again, it's a Japanese '87 Ibby RD-707 with a wicked 3 piece maple neck, so ymmv... depends on the instrument

          OTOH, the Ibby has maybe the slimmest bass neck I've ever played... so perhaps most basses will fare A-Ok, as long as their necks are well-made from proper materials
          Last edited by Adieu; 06-12-2017, 04:39 AM.
          "New stuff always sucks" -Me

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

            I've got an '87 Ibanez SR-885LE 5 string. Really thin neck. I've never had a problem with it. Just make sure the truss rod is properly adjusted.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #7
              Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

              Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon View Post
              I've got an '87 Ibanez SR-885LE 5 string. Really thin neck. I've never had a problem with it. Just make sure the truss rod is properly adjusted.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              The issue isn't that he's playing a 5 string set, it's that he's using the bottom 4 strings of that set to play in Eb (a 130 tuned to Eb).
              Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
              Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
              Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
              Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
              Line 6 Helix
              Dunlop Strings and Picks

              The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                Originally posted by Johnny the Kid View Post
                The issue isn't that he's playing a 5 string set, it's that he's using the bottom 4 strings of that set to play in Eb (a 130 tuned to Eb).
                My point was those bottom 4 strings won't harm the neck. I have 5 on a skinny neck with no problems. That's even more tension.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                  Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon View Post
                  My point was those bottom 4 strings won't harm the neck. I have 5 on a skinny neck with no problems. That's even more tension.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  5's tend to be better reinforced. And it wouldn't be more tension on a 5 string with that set if you tune that bass to standard. I can do the maths if you want me to. I'd rather not have to right now though.
                  Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
                  Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
                  Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
                  Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
                  Line 6 Helix
                  Dunlop Strings and Picks

                  The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                    Originally posted by Johnny the Kid View Post
                    5's tend to be better reinforced. And it wouldn't be more tension on a 5 string with that set if you tune that bass to standard. I can do the maths if you want me to. I'd rather not have to right now though.
                    I'm a luthier. I can tell you with certainty that most 5 strings have the same neck reinforcement as a 4 string. My Ibanez has one truss rod, and nothing else.

                    Now explain how having an additional string tuned to pitch will not increase the total tension. I'll do the math (don't pluralize the word math) for you;

                    Here's the tension for a set of D'Addario Pro Steels in .045 gauge.

                    G = 41.520 lbs (0.045")
                    D = 47.120 lbs (0.065")
                    A = 39.010 lbs (0.080")
                    E = 33.780 lbs (0.100")
                    B = 31.390 lbs (0.130")

                    So, a 5 string set exerts 192.82 lbs of tension on the neck. Remove the G string and it's 151.3 lbs. remove the low B and it's 161.43 lbs.

                    This assumes the strings are tuned to standard pitch.

                    So the bottom 4 strings on a 5 string set exert about the same tension than the same gauge 4 string set. And in fact it's less tension. This is because the increased mass on the B string allows it to reach pitch at less tension than the G string. Which is what I was saying to start with. So there's no need to worry about the neck. The rod will be looser too.

                    Obviously other brands and gauges have different tension at pitch.

                    So what was your point again?


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    Last edited by DavidRavenMoon; 06-14-2017, 06:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                      Using your set...

                      .065 @ Gb = ~75lbs
                      .080 @ Db = ~64lbs
                      .100 @ Ab = ~54lbs
                      .130 @ Eb = ~50lbs

                      244 lbs for the set at Eb. Can Ace's neck take it?
                      Oh no.....


                      Oh Yeah!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                        Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
                        Using your set...

                        .065 @ Gb = ~75lbs
                        .080 @ Db = ~64lbs
                        .100 @ Ab = ~54lbs
                        .130 @ Eb = ~50lbs

                        244 lbs for the set at Eb. Can Ace's neck take it?
                        Yeah - That's the question!

                        What would a standard set tuned to standard be?
                        Originally posted by Bad City
                        He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                          Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon View Post
                          I'm a luthier. I can tell you with certainty that most 5 strings have the same neck reinforcement as a 4 string. My Ibanez has one truss rod, and nothing else.

                          Now explain how having an additional string tuned to pitch will not increase the total tension. I'll do the math (don't pluralize the word math) for you;

                          Here's the tension for a set of D'Addario Pro Steels in .045 gauge.

                          G = 41.520 lbs (0.045")
                          D = 47.120 lbs (0.065")
                          A = 39.010 lbs (0.080")
                          E = 33.780 lbs (0.100")
                          B = 31.390 lbs (0.130")

                          So, a 5 string set exerts 192.82 lbs of tension on the neck. Remove the G string and it's 151.3 lbs. remove the low B and it's 161.43 lbs.

                          This assumes the strings are tuned to standard pitch.

                          So the bottom 4 strings on a 5 string set exert about the same tension than the same gauge 4 string set. And in fact it's less tension. This is because the increased mass on the B string allows it to reach pitch at less tension than the G string. Which is what I was saying to start with. So there's no need to worry about the neck. The rod will be looser too.

                          Obviously other brands and gauges have different tension at pitch.

                          So what was your point again?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          My point was that if you tune a 65-130 bass string set to Eb standard, either the neck will not be able to handle it without a severe truss rod adjustment or the strings will break after about 10 minutes.

                          If Ace were to tune to B standard, yes no issues. If Ace used the E-G strings of that set tuned to standard, no issues. If Ace tunes a 65-130 set to a half step below standard, issues will ensue.

                          If you are a luthier and cannot understand when I plainly said "a 130 tuned to Eb" as I said at the end of post #7, then I do not trust your skills as a luthier.
                          Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
                          Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
                          Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
                          Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
                          Line 6 Helix
                          Dunlop Strings and Picks

                          The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                            Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                            Yeah - That's the question!

                            What would a standard set tuned to standard be?
                            As David said above, it's around 160lbs for a standard set. I don't know that I would temp adding 90 more pounds to that.
                            Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
                            Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
                            Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
                            Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
                            Line 6 Helix
                            Dunlop Strings and Picks

                            The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New 5 strings on a 4 string question...

                              Originally posted by Johnny the Kid View Post
                              My point was that if you tune a 65-130 bass string set to Eb standard, either the neck will not be able to handle it without a severe truss rod adjustment or the strings will break after about 10 minutes.

                              If Ace were to tune to B standard, yes no issues. If Ace used the E-G strings of that set tuned to standard, no issues. If Ace tunes a 65-130 set to a half step below standard, issues will ensue.

                              If you are a luthier and cannot understand when I plainly said "a 130 tuned to Eb" as I said at the end of post #7, then I do not trust your skills as a luthier.
                              Who would tune a 130 B string to E flat?

                              And who was talking about doing that? This thread is about tuning a 4 string bass using the BEAD strings from a 5 string.

                              And if you read what I wrote and thought before you started typing that would have been apparent.

                              And don't worry about my skills as a luthier. Worry about your reading skills. [emoji6]

                              Here's one of my basses.


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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