I have a randall diavlo rd1 and currently i am running it through orange ppc 112 cab with vintage 30 speaker. i am thinking of replace orange ppc 112 with some other 2x12 cab, also with vintage 30s. is this a good idea, to run 1 watt valve head through 2 speakers. from what i know, it would be double wattage of orange. it would be louder, with little more headroom, with better low end. i also own big brother diavlo rd45, and i am somehow in compromise to sell 1x12 and buy used 2x12. is it in general good idea to run this 1 watt head through 2X12, or should i better keep an orange?
1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
- Thread starter Lux84
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Jacew
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
It doesn't affect the wattage. Wattage depends of the amplifier design. Adding second speaker simply divides the wattage for two speakers. So it won't add much loudness.
Speaker efficiency affects the loudness, but V30 is pretty efficient speaker so there's not much to improve there.
If you want more headroom, loudness and low end you need bigger amp.
It doesn't affect the wattage. Wattage depends of the amplifier design. Adding second speaker simply divides the wattage for two speakers. So it won't add much loudness.
Speaker efficiency affects the loudness, but V30 is pretty efficient speaker so there's not much to improve there.
If you want more headroom, loudness and low end you need bigger amp.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Using the same speaker model across the board, 2x12" sounds different than 1x12", but the difference is not mainly the loudness IME. It's just somehow a more "rich," yet also more present sound. Maybe it's just that the sound gets distributed throughout the room in a slightly different way.
Using the same speaker model across the board, 2x12" sounds different than 1x12", but the difference is not mainly the loudness IME. It's just somehow a more "rich," yet also more present sound. Maybe it's just that the sound gets distributed throughout the room in a slightly different way.
75lespaul
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Pretty much what everyone else said. I've got a Bad Cat combo amp and the same amp in a head version, and besides the open back/closed back difference, the 2X12 I put the head through sounds a bit more "3D" and full. I guess you should have more bass, but I've heard V30s in a single 12 cab that had more bottom than a 2X12, so I'm pretty sure that is more a design and materials of the cabinet than the speaker if the same amp is used?
Pretty much what everyone else said. I've got a Bad Cat combo amp and the same amp in a head version, and besides the open back/closed back difference, the 2X12 I put the head through sounds a bit more "3D" and full. I guess you should have more bass, but I've heard V30s in a single 12 cab that had more bottom than a 2X12, so I'm pretty sure that is more a design and materials of the cabinet than the speaker if the same amp is used?
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
* Two identical sound sources of equal amplitude and equal phase create a 3dB increase in the signal level. This is affected by multiple factors in the real world I won’t get into here which could result in a net Zero increase at the listening position.
While this is true, the effective wattage is increased due to the 3dB increase in SPL caused by the second driver*. Not a huge difference in subjective terms, but there is a difference.
* Two identical sound sources of equal amplitude and equal phase create a 3dB increase in the signal level. This is affected by multiple factors in the real world I won’t get into here which could result in a net Zero increase at the listening position.
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Well, i thought it would be a good idea, to replace this 1x12 with 2x12. And i am playing through this Orange PPC 112 now for many years, so i thouhgt it would be cool to try different cab. This is only for home use. It's loud enough if i crank it. But i have plans to join the band in the future, and i decided to do a compromise between 1x12 and 4x12 and just buy 2x12.. I don't know, maybe i will keep Orange for home, and later buy Engl Pro Straight 2x12 for the band, and i already have big brother Randall Diavlo RD45 head..
Well, i thought it would be a good idea, to replace this 1x12 with 2x12. And i am playing through this Orange PPC 112 now for many years, so i thouhgt it would be cool to try different cab. This is only for home use. It's loud enough if i crank it. But i have plans to join the band in the future, and i decided to do a compromise between 1x12 and 4x12 and just buy 2x12.. I don't know, maybe i will keep Orange for home, and later buy Engl Pro Straight 2x12 for the band, and i already have big brother Randall Diavlo RD45 head..
Jacew
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
But isn't that offsetted by the fact power is now halved between both speakers? (Since it applies both ways: Double the power with everything else staying same adding +3db...)
Not to confuse people I'd also like to point out that any of that has nothing to do with wattage. Possible added loudness is due to the added efficiency. Amp puts out the same amount of wattage regardless of what you connect it to.
But isn't that offsetted by the fact power is now halved between both speakers? (Since it applies both ways: Double the power with everything else staying same adding +3db...)
Not to confuse people I'd also like to point out that any of that has nothing to do with wattage. Possible added loudness is due to the added efficiency. Amp puts out the same amount of wattage regardless of what you connect it to.
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
I would need 2x12 for the band for the future.. if i am gonna find something used i am gonna get it. but this orange 112 is a keeper, for home use anyway. i will not buy new 2x12, i am gonna look for used ones. for a while i was gasing for engl pro straight 212 but it's too expensive, and i would left 212 and amplifier at band rehearsal place anyway.
I would need 2x12 for the band for the future.. if i am gonna find something used i am gonna get it. but this orange 112 is a keeper, for home use anyway. i will not buy new 2x12, i am gonna look for used ones. for a while i was gasing for engl pro straight 212 but it's too expensive, and i would left 212 and amplifier at band rehearsal place anyway.
Jacew
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Where are you located? Harley Benton cabs are solid built, full plywood and come with V30 speakers. For 220€ that's quite unbeatable value for money. Vertical version is 240€
Where are you located? Harley Benton cabs are solid built, full plywood and come with V30 speakers. For 220€ that's quite unbeatable value for money. Vertical version is 240€
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
I would personally take a good 1x12 cab (like the PPC112) over an OK 2x12.
The 1x12 with the RD45 will be loud enough for band practice, no doubt.
I would personally take a good 1x12 cab (like the PPC112) over an OK 2x12.
The 1x12 with the RD45 will be loud enough for band practice, no doubt.
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Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Well, i thought about those harley bentons, i could get one from thomann.. but i am also gasing for something used. i'll be checking sells in the next months, and if something interesting pops out, i am gonna check it. i got my eyes on some used old framus 212, with vintage 30s and vintage brown front panel..
Well, i thought about those harley bentons, i could get one from thomann.. but i am also gasing for something used. i'll be checking sells in the next months, and if something interesting pops out, i am gonna check it. i got my eyes on some used old framus 212, with vintage 30s and vintage brown front panel..
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TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
If an amplifier puts out X watts into Y ohms, the number of loudspeakers is irrelevant. If Y remains constant, so does X.
Jacew
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Yes. That was exactly what I meant. But each speaker gets only half of X, power for each is halved, hence the -3db loss. Both speakers transform power to sound in same ratio, which adds +3db back, so result is the same.
Only thing that I can figure could make them louder is added efficiency due to acoustic coupling. Which I don't know much about.
Yes. That was exactly what I meant. But each speaker gets only half of X, power for each is halved, hence the -3db loss. Both speakers transform power to sound in same ratio, which adds +3db back, so result is the same.
Only thing that I can figure could make them louder is added efficiency due to acoustic coupling. Which I don't know much about.
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
The catch is "as long as Y remains the same", which it won't if you're using 1 vs. 2 of the same speakers.
Nope, each speaker gets all of X, as long as Y (the resistance) remains the same.
The catch is "as long as Y remains the same", which it won't if you're using 1 vs. 2 of the same speakers.
Jacew
New member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
Impedance, not resistance...
But yes, you're right about that. However tube amps always want matched impedance, you can't get more power out of them by lowering it. In fact the power drops as tubes drift out of their optimal operating condition.
With SS amps you can. But you'll likely to burn it, if you go lower than specced impedance.
Impedance, not resistance...
But yes, you're right about that. However tube amps always want matched impedance, you can't get more power out of them by lowering it. In fact the power drops as tubes drift out of their optimal operating condition.
With SS amps you can. But you'll likely to burn it, if you go lower than specced impedance.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
2x12 will push more cubic feet of air so you’ll get more distance projection and avoid dissipation into upholstery, carpet and whatever else is in the room, but not actual volume level. This is what line arrays in PAs are all about - clarity over distance, not loudness. People tend to think it’s louder because they hear it clearly farther away, but it’s not louder than standing near it.
2x12 will push more cubic feet of air so you’ll get more distance projection and avoid dissipation into upholstery, carpet and whatever else is in the room, but not actual volume level. This is what line arrays in PAs are all about - clarity over distance, not loudness. People tend to think it’s louder because they hear it clearly farther away, but it’s not louder than standing near it.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: 1x12 vs 2x12 cab for 1 watt valve amp
But your first point is true: more drivers = more sound. But it also = more phase issues and more thermal noise (heat dissipating as noise, aka ‘tube rush’).
Good points here (though it’s probably more likely to be cubic centimeters than feet) but a guitar stack can never be a line array or behave like one. A line array’s efficacy stems from using ultra-sensitive loudspeakers which are time-aligned and actively crossed over to a space so that the dispersion of sound is very even. The number of drivers, strictly speaking, is irrelevant. Comparatively, a guitar rig is a total pig next to a line array in every measurement known.
But your first point is true: more drivers = more sound. But it also = more phase issues and more thermal noise (heat dissipating as noise, aka ‘tube rush’).
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