2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

C

chillytouch

New member
Hi,

Question for you on this would work and be safe or if something would blow up. I have an evh 2x12 6l6 combo. If I were to hook an instrument cable up to the "pre-amp" out and then hook that into the effects loop return of my el34 amphead (which goes to a 1x12 cab), would that work and create a stereo like sound?

So essentially itd be.

2x12 combo preamp out -> 50w amphead fx return --> 1x12 speaker cab


Maybe it's stupid, but was just kind of curious if it would work. I really like the stereo effects that I get from amp software from like bias and stuff.

Also another question. If I were to do this, do I need something still hooked in front of amp #2. Or can just nothing be hooked in and only something going into the fx return?
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

I think that it would work, you would just have to watch the level coming from the preamp out from your first amp. You also have to make sure that when you use pre out that it doesn't interrupt the signal and mute the output from that amp; fx loop may work better in that case.

However, it will not be true stereo, or even simulated, because your source is still mono. You can simulate stereo by using stereo effects.

EDIT: Stereo is described in mathematical terms as
minus (-)
. If your source doesn't have a way of differentiating this, you will still have a mono result. Stereo chorus, for example, simulates stereo from a mono source by changing the timing and phase of L-R; the wider this gap, the more separation you have between left and right and the smaller your phantom center image.

The way I would use that setup is with something like a Keeley 30mS or TC Electronic MIMIQ, and split the signal going to each amp discretely. Then you can EQ each amp separately and have a really wide stereo sound.

Hope this helps.​
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

TwilightOdyssey said:
I think that it would work, you would just have to watch the level coming from the preamp out from your first amp. You also have to make sure that when you use pre out that it doesn't interrupt the signal and mute the output from that amp; fx loop may work better in that case.

However, it will not be true stereo, or even simulated, because your source is still mono. You can simulate stereo by using stereo effects.

EDIT: Stereo is described in mathematical terms as
minus (-)
. If your source doesn't have a way of differentiating this, you will still have a mono result. Stereo chorus, for example, simulates stereo from a mono source by changing the timing and phase of L-R; the wider this gap, the more separation you have between left and right and the smaller your phantom center image.

The way I would use that setup is with something like a Keeley 30mS or TC Electronic MIMIQ, and split the signal going to each amp discretely. Then you can EQ each amp separately and have a really wide stereo sound.

Hope this helps.​
Click to expand...



Hey thanks for the reply man! So yeah I tried it and unfortunately the source amp (the one that I put the cable into the "preamp out" port) became muted. The 2nd amp/speaker cab worked though.

So maybe I'll try getting a splitter then. It may sound weird. Idk a 6l6 2x12 and an el34 1x12 in a house, but hey, couldnt hurt to try right?

Can you by any chance recommend a splitter that I could try? Nothing fancy but something that I can plug my guitar into and then go to the 2 separate amps?​
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

If you aren't going to use a stereo effect pedal but still wish to go dual (mono) amps, a buffered splitter is an expensive way to get there. I use the Saturnworks buffered splitter ($50 on Reverb) when I need to run something in addition to my normal rig.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

chadd said:
If you aren't going to use a stereo effect pedal but still wish to go dual (mono) amps, a buffered splitter is an expensive way to get there. I use the Saturnworks buffered splitter ($50 on Reverb) when I need to run something in addition to my normal rig.
Click to expand...

Ohhh ok I guess I sort of see what you're saying now. Well, so I have a stereo chorus pedal. So, technically, if I wanted to, could I put my pedals like delay and reverb in front of my chorus pedal, and then split the outputs from my chorus pedal to the effects return from both my main amp and the second amp? And do it that way?

I basically just want to get the cool effect of 6l6 mixed with the el34. A splitter isnt too expensive, so if itd be better to just split it at the beginning and send it to each amps input I can do that too
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

Not stereo but as long as both amps have a speaker connected and you use proper gain staging, it will work just fine. What your describing sounds like “slaving” which is a cool way to mix and match different pre and power amp combination.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

chillytouch said:
Ohhh ok I guess I sort of see what you're saying now. Well, so I have a stereo chorus pedal. So, technically, if I wanted to, could I put my pedals like delay and reverb in front of my chorus pedal, and then split the outputs from my chorus pedal to the effects return from both my main amp and the second amp? And do it that way?

I basically just want to get the cool effect of 6l6 mixed with the el34. A splitter isnt too expensive, so if itd be better to just split it at the beginning and send it to each amps input I can do that too
Click to expand...

I meant to say *inexpensive* in regards to a splitter.
Using your chorus as the splitter and into the two effects returns will work fine. In fact, that's probably the best option for actual stereo. You can experiment with putting the other effects before the chorus, on either amp or one on each. Who knows, you might be surprised at what you find.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

First amp FX send to some stereo FX pedals then L return to first amp FX return and R return to second amp FX return, that would be a stereo rig. Even if your stereo FX pedals are off and just splitting the signal I would call it a stereo rig since those are two different amps with different sounds. The more "different" they are the more obvious the stereo effect will be, you can enhance it with stereo fx or something like the TC Mimiq. Beware of ground loops or phasing issues, both can be fixed but you may need to get one or two extra gadgets to solve it.

Now that we are in the conversation, I suggest you read about dedicated guitar preamps (AMT, ISP, other) and guitar power amps (ISP, Duncan, others). I think it can help you to look at the bigger picture of interconnecting amps.

Edit: I use a single AMT SS-20 preamp and some stereo FX into an ISP Stealth stereo power amp into a couple of 1x12 cabs. Fun and not too hard to carry as there is no real heavy amp head and the 1x12 cabs cab be easily taken one by one.
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

I wonder if anyone has made stereo rig starting from stereo signal from guitar with different pickups going each channel?

I've been tempted by the idea for a few years, but deemed it just too much hassle and work for my limited time.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

Jacew said:
I wonder if anyone has made stereo rig starting from stereo signal from guitar with different pickups going each channel?

I've been tempted by the idea for a few years, but deemed it just too much hassle and work for my limited time.
Click to expand...
I think the Brian Moore guitars were capable of this, as well as some Zon models.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

Jacew said:
I wonder if anyone has made stereo rig starting from stereo signal from guitar with different pickups going each channel?

I've been tempted by the idea for a few years, but deemed it just too much hassle and work for my limited time.
Click to expand...

Just about everything has been done by someone at this point and you hit on the reason that it never caught on anywhere. There's just way more hassle than it's worth.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

I think the Kramer Ripley guitars had a pan pot for each string. I have a Brian Moore, and while you have essentially 2 jacks, 1 is magnetic and 1 is piezo.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

chadd said:
Just about everything has been done by someone at this point and you hit on the reason that it never caught on anywhere. There's just way more hassle than it's worth.
Click to expand...

If you already have stereo rig, I don't think it's that much hassle. Just split a stereo cable in the receiving end?

I'm it's been done, but haven't read about it anywhere. Figure of speech.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

When you have modulation or time based effects, they ideally go in the loop but it isn't totally necessary and plenty prefer them in front of the amp. Things like a delay or other modulation effects are often in the FX loop in high gain applications. What you are describing I would call dual mono as the signal each amp is receiving is the same. One way to do this where you're using the preamp and power amp section of each amp would be to daisy chain inputs, meaning if one of the amps has two inputs, you can plug from one input into the other amp's input and get dual mono as well, but colored differently by the different amps. An ABY type pedal could do this for you as well and a good one can correct phase and grounding issues between the amps.

You could split a stereo effect back into the amp's return and then to another amp's return or run them in front of the amp(s). If your amp doesn't function with nothing in the FX return, that means it's a series FX loop, as opposed to parallel. With parallel you could get by without the ABY switcher pedals. Modulation effects are considered "wet" effects, like reverb or delay, chorus, phaser, etc. and most consider tremolo a modulation effect though I'm on the fence.

There are "wet/dry" rigs where one amp receives no modulation and the other can be mixed very wet, yet you'll retain note clarity and pick attack and such without the signal feeling too washy. If you were to run your stereo chorus into both amps that would be proper stereo, wet/wet I'd consider it. There are also wet/dry/wet setups where the wet effects are in stereo, like a ping pong panning delay for instance, while the dry amp is centered and mono. You could achieve this with an AB switch in your series loop and in front of stereo FX, I think.

There are some good videos that describe wet/dry stuff and slaving on YouTube if you're not hip to this sorta thing. When you're running a preamp into a different power amp, that's considered slaving. I kinda do this for my w/d/w rig but not sure it counts if the "slaved" amp is just a power amp with no preamp section. There are other methods that also count there. There are ways to do it with just one amp and the PA if you have the right FX. Another cool thing about slaving though is it's a way to make a little amp bigger. You can turn a 5W amp into 100 watts if you wanna, and I do.
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

IMENATOR said:
First amp FX send to some stereo FX pedals then L return to first amp FX return and R return to second amp FX return, that would be a stereo rig. Even if your stereo FX pedals are off and just splitting the signal I would call it a stereo rig since those are two different amps with different sounds. The more "different" they are the more obvious the stereo effect will be, you can enhance it with stereo fx or something like the TC Mimiq. Beware of ground loops or phasing issues, both can be fixed but you may need to get one or two extra gadgets to solve it.

Now that we are in the conversation, I suggest you read about dedicated guitar preamps (AMT, ISP, other) and guitar power amps (ISP, Duncan, others). I think it can help you to look at the bigger picture of interconnecting amps.

Edit: I use a single AMT SS-20 preamp and some stereo FX into an ISP Stealth stereo power amp into a couple of 1x12 cabs. Fun and not too hard to carry as there is no real heavy amp head and the 1x12 cabs cab be easily taken one by one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the replies guys!

So this is the issue I am running into now. I did all my effects in the loop and then my last pedal is the chorus (which I just leave off) but I have the outputs of the pedal split to the two different amps (so basically what you mentioned above). The problem I'm having is that the el34 amp with the 1x12 connected is way louder than the 6l6 2x12 amp combo. So all I really hear is the 1x12. If I adjust the volume on the 6l6 amp (which is the master), the volume for both amps raises, so I can't get the volume between the 2 even :(.

I ordered a splitter to try (i'll put my guitar directly into the splitter). If I use a splitter, and still want to to use reverb/delay, can I go from

Splitter --> 2 different amps --> both amps effects send into the A/B inputs of delay pedal --> A/B inputs of reverb pedal --> out to their respective amp effects returns.

Would that work?
 
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Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

chillytouch said:
Thanks for all the replies guys!

So this is the issue I am running into now. I did all my effects in the loop and then my last pedal is the chorus (which I just leave off) but I have the outputs of the pedal split to the two different amps (so basically what you mentioned above). The problem I'm having is that the el34 amp with the 1x12 connected is way louder than the 6l6 2x12 amp combo. So all I really hear is the 1x12. If I adjust the volume on the 6l6 amp (which is the master), the volume for both amps raises, so I can't get the volume between the 2 even :(.

I ordered a splitter to try (i'll put my guitar directly into the splitter). If I use a splitter, and still want to to use reverb/delay, can I go from

Splitter --> 2 different amps --> both amps effects send into the A/B inputs of delay pedal --> A/B inputs of reverb pedal --> out to their respective amp effects returns.

Would that work?
Click to expand...


You really need figure out how each power amp section works, specially the one from the slave amp. In some amps the master volume control is before the FX Send, that means whatever hits the FX return (the power amp) is being amplified at full power (like a Fender Hot Rode Deluxe), then the master volume knob will only control the signal of the own amp but may not control the volume of the signal coming from the master amp.

Turn down the master volume of your slave amp (el34 amphead which goes to a 1x12 cab if I understood correctly? ) up and down while here is nothing plugged in the FX return of the master amp, if the volume never changed on the slave amp then you need an extra gadget to control the volume of the signal coming into the slave amp.

You can still use the a single preamp from your favorite amp in a stereo rig, Andy Timons takes the FX send from his Amp #1 into stereo pedal board then sends one cable to the Amp #1 FX return and a second cable to Amp #2 FX return. He does however use two identical heads and cabs so both power amps and speakers can be balanced in volume.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

IMENATOR said:
You really need figure out how each power amp section works, specially the one from the slave amp. In some amps the master volume control is before the FX Send, that means whatever hits the FX return (the power amp) is being amplified at full power (like a Fender Hot Rode Deluxe), then the master volume knob will only control the signal of the own amp but may not control the volume of the signal coming from the master amp.

Turn down the master volume of your slave amp (el34 amphead which goes to a 1x12 cab if I understood correctly? ) up and down while here is nothing plugged in the FX return of the master amp, if the volume never changed on the slave amp then you need an extra gadget to control the volume of the signal coming into the slave amp.

You can still use the a single preamp from your favorite amp in a stereo rig, Andy Timons takes the FX send from his Amp #1 into stereo pedal board then sends one cable to the Amp #1 FX return and a second cable to Amp #2 FX return. He does however use two identical heads and cabs so both power amps and speakers can be balanced in volume.
Click to expand...

They're both EVH 50w heads up yeah they are different amps (6l6/el34).

I have a little black box (that's the name, it's a mini attenuator that is meant to go in the FX loop).

Do you think I could just put that before the EL34 amp fx return? Will having an extra pedal on one side make some type of lag effect between the 2 outputs? Like, chorus pedal output 1 to the 6l6 master just goes straight back into FX return but output 2 goes through a passive attenuator to slave amp FX return. Not sure if that presents a lag or something. I can give it a shot though. btw I love andy timons lol.

Oh and also to answer your one question. Adjusting the master volume on the EL34 (slave) amp changes nothing. Still stays the same.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

chillytouch said:
Do you think I could just put that before the EL34 amp fx return? Will having an extra pedal on one side make some type of lag effect between the 2 outputs? Like, chorus pedal output 1 to the 6l6 master just goes straight back into FX return but output 2 goes through a passive attenuator to slave amp FX return. Not sure if that presents a lag or something. I can give it a shot though. btw I love andy timons lol.

Oh and also to answer your one question. Adjusting the master volume on the EL34 (slave) amp changes nothing. Still stays the same.
Click to expand...

The black box will solve your volume difference without introducing noticeable lag. It might change the tone, though. It would be a feat of engineering if the black box can equally lower all frequencies at an equal measure for any line-level signal. Since you have all those effects pedals with stereo in/out I recommend using those in the effects loops of both amps, ditching the black box, and using an active ABY splitter in front of the amps. You will definitely want phase correction and a grounding option as others have mentioned. Fulltone and Radial make great ones.

Side note.. the more I think about it the more useless I find the JHS black box to be. It can be used for random applications to reduce pre-amp volume like the one you asked about, but for real attenuation you have to go between the power amp and speaker. Even then you have to shell out big bucks for a reactive load attenuator if you want to get close to lowering the volume without affecting that pushed amp tone and response
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

rainsong86 said:
The black box will solve your volume difference without introducing noticeable lag. It might change the tone, though. It would be a feat of engineering if the black box can equally lower all frequencies at an equal measure for any line-level signal. Since you have all those effects pedals with stereo in/out I recommend using those in the effects loops of both amps, ditching the black box, and using an active ABY splitter in front of the amps. You will definitely want phase correction and a grounding option as others have mentioned. Fulltone and Radial make great ones.

Side note.. the more I think about it the more useless I find the JHS black box to be. It can be used for random applications to reduce pre-amp volume like the one you asked about, but for real attenuation you have to go between the power amp and speaker. Even then you have to shell out big bucks for a reactive load attenuator if you want to get close to lowering the volume without affecting that pushed amp tone and response
Click to expand...


yeah... I tried looking at a decent attenuator but the more I read reviews I couldn't find one sub 800.00 that had really consistent reviews, so I gave up. I bought a messa cabclone but quickly cancelled my order when I saw some pretty concerning youtube reviews.

I ended up getting the EVH 5150 2x12 combo amp with the built in attenuator. Full disclosure though, it still is ridiculously loud even at the 1watt setting. Cannot turn volume above 2 lol. But I don't mind because I wanted the 6l6 version of the amp anyway. I like the El34 version and 6l6 each in their own way, maybe slightly leaning towards the EL34. That's why I'm excited to try to get them in stereo :laugh:

I took your advice and I got the radial ABY splitter.
 
Re: 2x12 preamp out to separate 1x12. Is this stereo?

Radial twin city or bigshot?

Also keep in mind that the difference in 6L6 or el34 is negligible compared to the difference in using 1x12 as opposed to 2x12.

I also wonder if the attenuator in your 5150 is an actual power soak or just a good post-phase inverter master volume.
 
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