5150 pedal vs. 5150 Iconic amp

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One of Jerry's Kids
I was checking out a guitar last weekend at GC and they plugged me into a 15w 1x10 5150. The amp sounded amazing, with great clear distortion with amazing saturation. I am wondering how close the 5150 amps and MXR pedals sound to each other. It is not a cheap pedal so I want to do my research.
 
I think the official statement is that the MXR pedal is based on the blue channel of the 5150III Stealth. I'm not really sure how accurate it is, because while the blue channel on the Stealth is pretty high-gain, the pedal has levels of gain that resemble the red channel more to me, but that's what they say.

I've plugged into the Iconic only briefly, but based on my limited experience, I'd say the Stealth in any channel is tighter and more modern. The pedal kinda has that vibe to me but in a pedal format.

But honestly, it's splitting hairs. They all have the 5150 over-the-top vibe.

If you want a budget version of the 5150 pedal, Joyo have the Chopper Z pedal which is a clone of the Apex Preamp which is based on the 5150 pedal with a few more options.
 
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The thing that says 5150 to me is that thump through a 4x12. I don't think just any amp can get that, even with the 5150 pedal. The gain amount is the same to me, though.
 
I have not played the pedal but, yeah, I agree with Mincer, the 5150 { 6505 } has bottom on it that a pedal may not be able to achieve at volume.
 
AMT P2...'nuff said

I looked at that also

The thing that says 5150 to me is that thump through a 4x12. I don't think just any amp can get that, even with the 5150 pedal. The gain amount is the same to me, though.

I get a ton of thump with both the Marshall and Carvin, especially the Carvin. I am interested in the saturation in the 5150. The touch sensitivity was also very nice but that could be man factors including the speakers.
 
I would imagine the saturation being the same. Touch-sensitivity is a hard one to replicate with a pedal.
 
Iconic amp is getting its gain from tubes while the pedal is getting its gain from transistors, it will sound a bit different but probably close.
The amp is a full system where James Brown designed everything, even worked with Celestion for the custom speaker. The pedal will have to work with your existing setup and could probably sound a bit different.
 
I've had my eye on one of these pedals for a while. I love the 5150 sound and the saturation is a big part of it. I'm skeptical of a pedal being able to nail the dynamic range that an amp has. That combination of pick attack, saturation, dynamic range, and overall EQ is why I love the good Peavey tube heads I've played. If one of those elements is missing it doesn't really work for me. I gave up on trying with the Wampler Phenom for that reason, dynamic range was just not there.

I've read a bunch of glowing recommendations for the Amptweaker Tight Metal. Apparently designed by James Brown himself.
 
The Iconic is actually a hybrid. Not sure if all the gain is tube.

I think you'll like the MXR pedal, so long as you keep your expectations realistic as it's not gonna sound like a 1:1 clone through your setup.
 
I've read a bunch of glowing recommendations for the Amptweaker Tight Metal. Apparently designed by James Brown himself.

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That combination of pick attack, saturation, dynamic range, and overall EQ is why I love the good Peavey tube heads I've played. If one of those elements is missing it doesn't really work for me

Good point, I am probably chasing tone and trying to solve a problem I definitely do not have.

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Good point, I am probably chasing tone and trying to solve a problem I definitely do not have.

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I'm doing the same thing. I can't stop looking at distortion pedals lately even though I'm hard pressed to say what I could possibly improve about the stuff I already have. Maybe I just want a different flavor, I don't know... I definitely find that setups that respond even a little differently inspire me to write different riffs. Maybe it's not dumb? Maybe it's worth it? Maybe I deserve and need that full size Bogner Red Ecstasy pedal, or one of those tube powered AMT Bricks. Dammit.
 
Following up on the pedal vs amp conundrum, I've been watching Brian Wampler's youtube channel a bit and he talked about the "headroom" in an amp-in-a-box pedal not allowing for the same dynamic responsiveness. That seemed to make intuitive sense as far as the way most pedals feel, but he didn't go into detail. Then I read an old post on the telecaster forum that helped me understand it better. They're talking about the big box Bogner pedals running at higher voltage. Worth quoting:

11 Gauge says:


Just to elaborate on this, the B+ in a tube amp starts out as AC voltage that is stepped up at the power transformer, sometimes as high as 500V+.

It then gets rectified, but there is still something called "ripple" in the quasi-DC voltage. So then it takes a trip through various filter capacitors, which "even out" the ripple.

The voltage is then decreased thru the "B+ rail." The highest voltages are intended for the power tube plates. They typically get dropped a little bit for the power tube screens.

...There are then subsequent (usually smaller) filter capacitors, and "B+ dropping" resistors as the power progresses to the earlier gain stages.

So the next stop just prior to the power tubes is the phase inverter, which will have a lower B+. Then is the stage prior to the tone stack (in most instances of hotrodded/high gain amps), which has a lower B+ than the phase inverter.

...IF it is a higher gain setup with multi stages, the "third stage" typically has a higher B+ than the gain stages before and after it. So this requires a different "tap" to the B+. The Ecstasy is no different from other high gain beasts.

By the time you get down to the first two stages in a high gain amp, the B+ is typically dropped to a rather low voltage. I've seen as low as ~100VDC, for something like the Bad Cat Hot Cat 30, IIRC. That is really low. Most of the Mesas/Soldanos/etc. tend to keep it at around 160VDC or so, and I'd think the Bogners wouldn't be much different.

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So - converting this over to the world of solid state audio typically means voltages that are never higher than 40VDC or so. Hence the 50VDC rating for many standard application capacitors. Anyway, I think the Ecstasy pedals use a charge pump to push things up to about 27VDC max, which I would think would be carefully crafted at very different "B+" voltages to mimic the gain characteristics thru the pedal circuit. Reason being that not only will lower voltages distort more, but depending on the rest of the gain stage bias, it will affect other parameters like treble content, and how asymmetrical the clipping might be. In something like Mesa/Soldano/Peavey/etc. amps, the standard cathode bias resistor is 1.8K w/a 1uF bypass cap - it makes things more asymmetrical than the old Marshall value of 2.7K/.68uF, or the Fender cathode bias resistor value of 1.5K (although those bypass caps tend to be way too big for high gain stuff @ 22uF).

So not only is Bogner most likely tweaking the voltage in, but he's twiddling with the voltage to ground.

...If you were to compare that to many jFET/amp sim pedals that exist right now, many simply run on 9VDC or 18VDC with the same B+ in, and the same biasing to ground. All of these pedals will typically have to be consistent sounding to a point where they can be produced in very high numbers. The Bogner pedals possibly have a different process that is more manual and time consuming.

Two issues with jFET's are variations in transconductance and gain, so they require some finesse to work with unless they are sorted to be ultra-consistent. Since Bogner has worked with a similar issue with tubes varying in a similar fashion, he is probably well versed in how to deal with these issues.​

This helped me understand why AIB pedals that might do a great job of capturing the attack, distortion, and overall EQ of an amp still don't match its dynamics, and even when I like the "sound", I don't like the "feel". I always feel like I'm hitting a ceiling when I dig in, or if I have the thing dimed, there's no depth available for me to back off.

This also helped me remember that when I have a setup with good dynamics I actually like playing with the lower preamp gain settings I use at rehearsals and shows, and it inspired me to order a big box Bogner Blue pedal I saw on the verb, because I'm a sucker.
 
The sound and feel are getting pretty close though. On the cleaner side of things, the UA Dream pedal is fantastic in sound and feel.
 
I have not played the pedal but, yeah, I agree with Mincer, the 5150 { 6505 } has bottom on it that a pedal may not be able to achieve at volume.

That same bottom end gets tamed in the recording process which is mostly what I do. I have the 5150 pedal and its fantastic.
 
I have the AMT P2 myself. Used to own a block letter 5150 combo and later a 6505+ head with a 4x12

Can't imagine needing more than the AMT delivers when going for "that" sound in a pedal form factor.

There used to be a bunch of shootout clips online and no one could ever tell the difference between the pedal and the amp. I'm sure there are still some Youtube videos floating around that do the same.

I prefer to run my AMT pedals at 12V, but the P2 is still a killer at 9V.
 
I have the AMT P2 myself. Used to own a block letter 5150 combo and later a 6505+ head with a 4x12

Can't imagine needing more than the AMT delivers when going for "that" sound in a pedal form factor.

There used to be a bunch of shootout clips online and no one could ever tell the difference between the pedal and the amp. I'm sure there are still some Youtube videos floating around that do the same.

I prefer to run my AMT pedals at 12V, but the P2 is still a killer at 9V.

I didn't realize those let you choose the voltage. Why would you choose 9v over 12v...unless that's the only adapter you had?
 
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