57 Classic + adjustment help?

cheezemaster

cheezemaster

New member
Hey all - you've been helpful with this kind of thing in the past.

I've been playing around with adjusting/raising the height of the 57+ in my Les Paul (bridge pos) to give it more punch/output. I've got it so the low 3 (wound) strings sound killer - nice and fat and punchy and growly, but still backed off enough to get some openness.

The problem is the high 3 (unwound) strings. They're killing me - super, icepicky, loud and bright - especially the B and G strings. Chuck Berry style double bends sound like someone driving a nail into my ear.. haha. Same thing with big open chords - those strings just jump out. I've played around a little moving the poles and the treble side of the pickup a little but haven't noticed much difference. One thing I've noticed is that even unplugged, these strings/frequencies seem a bit more pronounced than others.

What's the theory in mellowing out these strings? Do I want the pickup higher with the poles down, or pickup lower with the poles up?

I know someone (Blueman :approve: ) will probaly chime in and suggest swapping mags. Since this pickup is covered, I'd really rather not deal with that if I don't have to. I've swapped mags before, but I've never removed a pup cover before.. haha. I'd like to exhaust my adjustment options first.

I'm not sure what the pots are - probably 300k.

As mentioned- my Les Paul does tend to be a little on the bright/high-middy side.. if another pickup would be more appropriate for this axe, I'm open to suggestions. I play classic hard rock/rawkn'roll type stuff.

Sorry for ramblin on... it's a slow work day :)
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

What's the treble setting on your amp at? Don't forget that too.

As for the treble side of the pickup, try putting the B and G poles flush with the cover and back it down a little bit.

The one thing that I'm also thinking is slight fret buzz or an unclean nut and/or saddle slot for those two strings. If they are ringing out with more of a "ping" to them, the string is definitely not sitting right in one of those two spots. The string should ring out just like all the others. Get it to a reputable tech to have checked out.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

Newer Gibsons, like my '00 ES-335 often have a 300K volume and 500K tone pot set up rather than the more conventional set up of all 500K pots. This makes for a little warmer tone with more mids, IMO, than with all 500K pot set ups.

I've had several Gibson guitars recently with the stock 57 Classic pickups and never thought of any of them as being harsh or ice picky so I don't think it's the pickup. Haven't tried the 57 Classic Plus pickup but Gibson says it's the same pickup just wound with a little more wire. When you overwind a pickup like that it usually that makes for a pickup with a little less treble but more ouput.

I tend to think it's more likely your amp or the way you have the tone controls adjusted on your amp, the speakers and/or your playing technique or ears.

I've never heard a high quality alnico 2 humbucker that I'd describe as being harsh or ice picky, and the '57 Classic pickups are high quality pickups.

But I'll tell you how I adjust humbucker polepieces: I adjust the two E string polepieces even with the tops of the bobbins or nickel covers. Then I adjust the middle four polepieces so I have an arch that matches the arch of the fingerboard. The D & G poles would be highest.

Then I hold the strings down at the highest fret and move the treble side of the bridge pickup to within 1/16" of the underside of the high E string and the bass side of the bridge pickup to about 1/8" away from the underside of the string. I'll play for a while and maybe move the treble side a little further away or not.

I do something similar with the neck pickup but it usually ends up further away from the strings. Maybe 1/8" for the treble side and 3/16" for the bass side.

Lew
 
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Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys:

A few more things to note/replies:

- I wouldn't say it's "pingy" and it's not a fret issue. Unplugged, the guitar is pretty balanced, although It does seem like those strings have a touch more volume.. maybe they're just newer?..or maybe it's just the resonance of the guitar?

- I used to have the whole pickup lower and didn't notice this problem... I think I just need to tweak it.

-Also, maybe "ice-picky" is the wrong word. A Tele can be "ice-picky", this is more of a case of the unwound, treble strings jumping out/cutting through everthing else. Since they're the high strings it makes it seem brighter.. if that makes any sense...

- by the way it's a 95 LP Standard.. not sure if that provides any useful info

Thanks for the tips, Lew.
 
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Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

+1 what Lew said. If this still gives you spikey unwound strings try lowering those pole pieces slightly and raising the pole pieces of the wound strings. Move the treble side of the pickup to within 1/16" of the depressed high "E" string and lower the bass side of the pickup so the pole pieces are 1/8-3/16" below the low "E" string. Then adjust your amp tone settings and see if it makes any difference.

If this doesn't help try using a 250 ohm pot.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

if i find that certain strings are too bright, typically what you have with the unwound ones, i lower the poles under those three strings so that the tops of the pole pieces are flush with the cover or even a half turn lower. then adjust that side of the pup to where the volume balances. on the bass strings i raise the poles above the cover then adjust that side of the pup. ones its basically dialed in i adjust the individual poles to make sure the string to string volume is the same
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

Lewguitar said:
But I'll tell you how I adjust humbucker polepieces: I adjust the two E string polepieces even with the tops of the bobbins or nickel covers. Then I adjust the middle four polepieces so I have an arch that matches the arch of the fingerboard. The D & G poles would be highest.

Then I hold the strings down at the highest fret and move the treble side of the bridge pickup to within 1/16" of the underside of the high E string and the bass side of the bridge pickup to about 1/8" away from the underside of the string.Lew
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The drawback with adjusting the pole pieces like that is that the individual string volumes are off. Plain strings are louder than wound, and thicker are louder than thinner. That means that the loudest string will be the G (if it's plain), and the quietest the D. To balance string volumes, they shouldn't be the same height.

Having the high E pole piece set low and the G higher, makes for a powerful G string & a weak high E. To equalize string volume, Dan Erlewine recommends setting the D pole piece highest, and the high E almost that high. The G & low E should be the lowest, and the B & A strings in between.

There's no 'official' way to do this, and you can do whatever you want. I personally don't care what you do, just know that if you adjust the pole pieces for tone, some strings may be noticeably louder than others.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

blueman335 said:
The drawback with adjusting the pole pieces like that is that the individual string volumes are off. Plain strings are louder than wound, and thicker are louder than thinner. That means that the loudest string will be the G (if it's plain), and the quietest the D. To balance string volumes, they shouldn't be the same height.
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I think this is exactly what's going on. I think I have the G and B poles too high - I'll get them flush with the cover and see what happens. I'm guitarless and at work at the moment, but I'll tweak it when I get home and see what's doin'

I also think I need a caliper or something so I can get some basic readings of string distance to make sure I'm not way off.. I've been totally winging it.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

57+ is notorious for have more treble bite than the regular 57. With the aggressive voicing of the regular 57, IMO the little extra output the 57+ offers isn't worth the more piercing tone they give compared to the regular 57. This is why I prefer the regular 57's with the bridge raised up and the neck lowered. Sorry this didn't address your specific problem, just my opnion on the models in general.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

TattooedCarrot said:
57+ is notorious for have more treble bite than the regular 57. With the aggressive voicing of the regular 57, IMO the little extra output the 57+ offers isn't worth the more piercing tone they give compared to the regular 57. This is why I prefer the regular 57's with the bridge raised up and the neck lowered. Sorry this didn't address your specific problem, just my opnion on the models in general.
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hmmm..interesting. I didn't know that. I have a regular 57 in the neck. Maybe, if my adjustments don't work I could try it in the bridge spot.. and throw a 490R or something else I have lying around in the neck (I rarely, if ever, use the neck pickup anyway - it's mostly there for looks..haha).
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

i always just lower the bass side and raise the treble side of the pickup, and set the adjustable screws opposite of that(raise bass screws/lower treble screws). it makes the bass strings clear and full without muddying them, and fattens the treble strings very nicely.

since you've got the cover on, it may not seem like it but the screws can go much deeper under the cover into the coil. i'd say try lowering the E the most(1/16 into the coil? not good with measurments:dunno:) and keep the G string just under the cover, and the B somewhere between that. do the opposite for the bass side.
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

cheezemaster said:
hmmm..interesting. I didn't know that. I have a regular 57 in the neck. Maybe, if my adjustments don't work I could try it in the bridge spot.. and throw a 490R or something else I have lying around in the neck (I rarely, if ever, use the neck pickup anyway - it's mostly there for looks..haha).
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I've heard people express that they were more successful putting it in the neck spot, so maybe something a little bigger/fuller in the bridge and the + in the neck?
 
Re: 57 Classic + adjustment help?

cheezemaster said:
I rarely, if ever, use the neck pickup anyway - it's mostly there for looks..haha.
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I was like that too for years. Either the bridge was thin & tinny, or the neck was dark & muffled, so I EQ'd the amp for the bridge & just used that. A lot of guys do this. Seemed like a waste.

I finally decided that I really needed to be using both PU's to get more tonal variety, so I warmed my bridge PU's with 250K's and/or magnets, and made sure my neck PU's were bright with 500K's and A5's. With this set-up, I could use one amp EQ setting that worked great with both PU's. What a concept! Now I use my neck HB's all the time. Sometimes I even forget which PU I'm playing.

If any of you are using just one PU, tweak them and move their EQ's closer to each other. Personally, I see no point in having PU's in a guitar with opposite EQ's; you're going to play one or the other, but probably not both. Why have one PU basically acting as ballast?
 
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