57 Classics in the family tree

JB_From_Hell

JB_From_Hell

Jomo's Nimions
I have a Les Paul with the 57 Classic/Plus set. I'm not asking for what would be better, but rather where they fall in the tone line. Like what would be a similar set on both the darker and brighter side, with comparable output.

If I decide this guitar is too dark, would a Seth set open it up a little? If it's too bright, do I want a '59/Custom 5 set? I have a lot of Duncan/DiMarzio experience, but very little with Gibson, aside from a set of real PAFs (which I like significantly less than the 57s, so I'm not looking for the most accurate copies).

Hope this makes sense.
 
There is something with the Gibson PAF style pickups of the 90ies and on. The first batches of the 57 and 49x series were highly regarded. In my book they started to wind them too tight and perfect. They started to sound bland and muddy in the lows, the A2 they used in the PAF style ones didn't help either.
In the 2010s Gibson started to work on their winding pattern and improved with the Custombuckers.
I felt that their non PAF offerings worked better with their tight winding pattern, like the 500T or Dirty Fingers. My 0.02.
 
Too dark I would say Pearly Gates.
Too bright I would say tone knob.

But, I hated the 57s in my LP Studio with a chambered body. Was regretting the purchase. I did a lot of back-n-forth on what to install... SLs, Antiqs, C.S. Pearly Gates... and finally settled on a set of Whole Lotta Humbuckers and wow did these wake this guitar up! Had them in there for a couple months now and still loving what this guitar can do now. Before it was too sterile, too scooped... just uninspiring as a whole. I also switched it to 50's wiring so don't know if that made a difference or not too. But these are similar in output, maybe a tad lower in the bridge than the 57 Plus that was in there.

Hope this helps.
 
MakerDP said:
But these are similar in output, maybe a tad lower in the bridge than the 57 Plus that was in there.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I think that's exactly what I want. It's been a couple weeks since I got the guitar, and I've gotten to know it a little more. I like the pickups separately, but the plus is too hot. Almost like it sounds like I switched guitars hot. This kinda sounds like it's worth checking out.
 
MakerDP said:
Too dark I would say Pearly Gates.
Too bright I would say tone knob.

But, I hated the 57s in my LP Studio with a chambered body. Was regretting the purchase. I did a lot of back-n-forth on what to install... SLs, Antiqs, C.S. Pearly Gates... and finally settled on a set of Whole Lotta Humbuckers and wow did these wake this guitar up! Had them in there for a couple months now and still loving what this guitar can do now. Before it was too sterile, too scooped... just uninspiring as a whole. I also switched it to 50's wiring so don't know if that made a difference or not too. But these are similar in output, maybe a tad lower in the bridge than the 57 Plus that was in there.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Same here I found the 57s too bright and a bit thin I went to the WLHs and have not been happier.
 
They sort of sit as a a bad version of a Seth Lover......a low-ish A2 wind. But they simultaneously manage to be both cluttered and brittle. If you wanted something of the same but without both of the bad extremes then the Seths would be it.
 
Though they don't work for me, the 57+/57 set were Frank Zappas go to pickups for a while. Frank also used them with a parametric EQ built into the guitar so I would imagine he had a lot more control over their tone.
 
I'm not sure this helps as I don't have a ton of experience with Duncan PAFs other than the 59, which I found to be very bland.

But I have a Hamer Scarab set neck that I originally tried with a 57/57+. I found them to be weak in their respective positions.

I put the 57+ in the neck, screws facing the neck, and put a 498t in the bridge.

To me they are a perfect match as an all rounder guitar. I just wish the 57+ split (they may now, but mine doesn't). I have the 498t wired to split on the bridge/screw coil.

It's very much a Guns and Roses neck tone, with the 57+ adding just enough output to cut through and match the 498t.

I traded the 57 to someone here on the forums.

So maybe if something is too dark or bright, try it in another position?

From what I understand the closest pickup to the 57+ at Gibson is the 490t. It adds 4 conductor wiring but has slightly less output than the 57+. I'm not willing to make the output tradeoff for wiring versatility.
 
Let's say I'm going to keep the neck pickup OR the bridge pickup. If I kept the 57 in the neck, would the 59/Custom hybrid be a good match? If I kept the 57+ in the bridge, would a '59 or maybe a Pearly Gates be a good match?

Or should I just say fuck it and put in the WLH set?
 
JB_From_Hell said:
Let's say I'm going to keep the neck pickup OR the bridge pickup. If I kept the 57 in the neck, would the 59/Custom hybrid be a good match? If I kept the 57+ in the bridge, would a '59 or maybe a Pearly Gates be a good match?

Or should I just say **** it and put in the WLH set?
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say a WLH set is the best option of the 3, then I'd suggest to put the Hybrid in the bridge if you keep the 57.
 
Dig the 57s in my SG. Swapped around for a year or two and landed with them back in the SG. Does jazz and hard rock very well. Symmetrical wind means fat fundamental tone and not much high end sparkle that mismatched coils bring. Bright and dark sounds easily attainable with EQ work and playing technique. I don't hear a lot of difference between lower output humbuckers to be honest... the ones I've tried had pretty similar flavors.

I split mine to open up the sound. I also run the guitar volume lower to open up the sound. Full guitar volume is fat and compressed.
 
jeremy said:
if the 57+ is too hot, im not sure id go for the hybrid?
Click to expand...

It may not be that it's too hot, but it has significantly more upper mids and highs, and significantly less bass than the 57 in the neck.

I noticed no one's mentioned a magnet swap yet, which is puzzling for this place.
 
HA! but theres some truth there. i know people who have put a4 into 57 classics but the a2 in there is already soft so almost anything you put in there is going to make it more aggressive which i know i certainly didnt want when i had a set installed. i still have em but dont know if they will go into anything.
 
I tend to think myself pretty knowledgeable about guitars and I also have experience with at least a dozen guitars with 57s. I still don't know what to think of them. They sound good through some rigs, bad through others. You can get at least 3 viable tones per position by simply fiddling with the pickup height and polepieces.

The necks usually have too much bass, but that's my only consistent experience with them.
 
Chistopher said:
I tend to think myself pretty knowledgeable about guitars and I also have experience with at least a dozen guitars with 57s. I still don't know what to think of them. They sound good through some rigs, bad through others. You can get at least 3 viable tones per position by simply fiddling with the pickup height and polepieces.

The necks usually have too much bass, but that's my only consistent experience with them.
Click to expand...

I'm currently in the polepiece fiddling stage. Raising the poles higher than normal and lowering the neck pickup a little sounds very good. The opposite for the bridge pickup, lowering the poles to flush with the cover and raising the pickup beefed it up enough to hang with the neck. I'm much happier with them now, and holding off replacing either/both for the meantime.

It currently has the pcb control board. If it's audibly no different than 4 pots, I'll leave it. If gutting it is beneficial, I'm fine with that too.
 
i do that frequently. lowering the neck pup but raising the poles, while keeping the bridge poles flush with the bobbin and raised up higher
 
I like pickups with two rows of polepieces because that gives you insane amounts of control over relative string volume, which is sometimes an issue that at first seems like a problem with the eq of the pickup
 
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