59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

[STRATDELUXER97]

After pulling out the 59N and trying the PGN....The two are pretty close..Oddly enough,the PGN seems pretty tight and clear with it's A2 magnet compared to the 59N A5...The PGN has more mids and is chimier on top,but it's still not lacking in the lows and is almost as boomy in the lows as the 59...

The PGN sounds like a 59N but it's as if you were to look at the EQ on the PGN,it's like bringing the mids and highs up a bit more,but leaving the lows the same....I like the extra chime the PGN offers,not sure if I Like the extra mids yet though?

I need to play with this for a bit and see,but the jury is out on the PGN for now....It didn't immediately "wow" me....Jeff H is talking about the APH II and I think that's going to be an in between of the PGN and the 59,but I've never used it? Seems it has less lows and more mids than the PGN does?

I'll spend alot of time with the PGN cause I know it's one of the best neck pickups around....I've got it adjusted down quite a bit to keep the lows tamed again..I'm even with the pickup cover at around 4/32" bass and 3/32" treble....About where the 59N was....

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Cool Bro!

I wonder, wouldn't you say the PGn has more of that a2 (spongy) bass than a 59n? At least thats what I hear. To my ears (in my guitars) PGn sounds like a regular good old a2 bucker with the addition of them uppermids (=texas sizzle :burnout: ).

B

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

The PGn and the A2Pn have different kinds of mids, the PG is more sharp upper mids, and the A2Pro has a more subtle low mid thing going on...the A2Pro also has a very sweet bell like top end that makes that pickup very chimey but not at all brittle. If the PG is a tad aggressive or seems at all harsh to you I think that the A2Pro would be the next choice. I love the tone of PG's both neck and bridge models, but some guys find them to be a bit...well, the only word that comes to mind it aggressive. That spike in the upper mids is not subtle at all. When trying to find a nice smooth neck pickup Lew suggested the Seth, and simply because of an issue with the cover I ended up with an Alnico IIPro, and I told myslef I was just gonna use it until I got a Seth...after 2 or 3 days I stopped looking for a Seth, and have felt almost no need to change it!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Cool Bro!

I wonder, wouldn't you say the PGn has more of that a2 (spongy) bass than a 59n? At least thats what I hear. To my ears (in my guitars) PGn sounds like a regular good old a2 bucker with the addition of them uppermids (=texas sizzle :burnout: ).

B

Thatys the way I hear it...the PG has a good bass response, but it is softer (or spongy) that the bass in a 59. BTW...it's good to see you Doc!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Cool Bro!

I wonder, wouldn't you say the PGn has more of that a2 (spongy) bass than a 59n? At least thats what I hear. To my ears (in my guitars) PGn sounds like a regular good old a2 bucker with the addition of them uppermids (=texas sizzle :burnout: ).

B

Well....I'm playing through my Vox Valvetronix head and into a brand new(Tight)sounding matching Vox/Celestion 2x12 cab....I'm not hearing anything saggy or spongy yet? LOL...The 2 pickups seem very close,but the PGN has more highs and has that midrange "sizzle" on the notes...I Like the mids and the highs,but the low E and A strings just boom...I'm messing with pickup heights and amp settings now,as my amp settings are set for single coils as a rule....

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Good to see you too Christian. Hope everything is fine with you.

John, I think your guitar's natural tone is quite strong. That might very well be the reason, because I think I hear quite a noticable difference between a PGn (stock) and 59n. Indeed even an a3 PGn is quite different (I'd say) from a 59n. See? Maybe its the amp, I dunno.

I wish I had a dun-aged a2 (from an ant) handy for you to try in your PGn. From your response I think that is something you'd like. Maybe you could buy some from the CS?

B

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Good to see you too Christian. Hope everything is fine with you.

John, I think your guitar's natural tone is quite strong. That might very well be the reason, because I think I hear quite a noticable difference between a PGn (stock) and 59n. Indeed even an a3 PGn is quite different (I'd say) from a 59n. See? Maybe its the amp, I dunno.

I wish I had a dun-aged a2 (from an ant) handy for you to try in your PGn. From your response I think that is something you'd like. Maybe you could buy some from the CS?

B

If this PGN had less lows(less boomy on the E,and A strings especially)and had a bit less of that midrange sizzle but kept the extra highend that the 59 lacked,I'd be great...

I've not tryed the APH 2 and maybe Jeff is dead on with his findings in my case?

I can't go back to the 59N with A5 because it was darker and boomier compared to the PGN...Next would have to be either the APH 2 or the Jazz,but I think the Jazz is a step too much the other way in my case,in that it might be a bit too anemic in the lows?

A magnet swap in the PGN might get me where I want to be? I'm thinkin an A3?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

John, I was just playing around with my 59' in the neck of my Standard. After hearing what you had to say, I went back and re-adjusted it a little bit. I lowered the bass side of the pup a fair amount compared to the treble side. Even thou it looks a bit funny, the sound improved even more, and the boominess reduced even more. I don't think it will ever go completely away, but it is much better.

Give that a whirl with the PG.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

The PGn and the A2Pn have different kinds of mids, the PG is more sharp upper mids, and the A2Pro has a more subtle low mid thing going on...the A2Pro also has a very sweet bell like top end that makes that pickup very chimey but not at all brittle. If the PG is a tad aggressive or seems at all harsh to you I think that the A2Pro would be the next choice. I love the tone of PG's both neck and bridge models, but some guys find them to be a bit...well, the only word that comes to mind it aggressive. That spike in the upper mids is not subtle at all. When trying to find a nice smooth neck pickup Lew suggested the Seth, and simply because of an issue with the cover I ended up with an Alnico IIPro, and I told myslef I was just gonna use it until I got a Seth...after 2 or 3 days I stopped looking for a Seth, and have felt almost no need to change it!

Doc Barlo's and Christian's assessments are right on the money, IMO. John: I think you need to try the Alnico 2 Pro next, especially if you're hearing the PGN as being a little agressive or "clicky" (my word, not yours! ) I don't hear the 59N and PGN as being as similar as you do but I have my PGN in a Strat. To me, the PGN does have a little less bass than the 59N. Lew

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Great post Doc....So you like the PGN as is then and without the magnet swap?

If I wanted to decrease a bit of the mids and some of the lows,but keep the chime,would you think an A3 might do it,and at the same time tighten the PGN up a bit....In other words this....

Less lows(A bit less)
Mids with "sizzle" that the PGN already has....The mids are ok but maybe it's the "sizzle" that I'm not used to,as the 59's mids were more scooped?
Chime on top
Clearer and more articulate...

John there are two things you can do as far as magnet swaps are concerned.

The first is the a3 route. You'd have more eq separation, but still the eq would be somewhat similar. The big difference would be in the lower mids, you'd lose some. The highs would become a little more clear, and the uppermids would still be there. So on average I think you'd like that less.

But when I write this I think the boominess you don't like comes from the bass, not the lower mids. In fact if you wanna keep the eq of the PG as it is but lose some lowermids (it may very well be that the boominess in your case comes from the lowermids - afterall PG is an a2 pickup) then a3 is a great choice.

The second route you could take is to get an aged magnet. As I said I think you'd like that. The highs would become rounder, the bass would be less pronounced and even more spongy, lowermids wouldn't change that much. I love those magnets in the neck positions, they make the neck tone BLOOM! (I mean the neck tone is generally soft, but with the pick attack there is a very open sounding non-biting attack.)

I think that's what you gotta try, before getting yourself an a2p.

B

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Doc Barlo's and Christian's assessments are right on the money, IMO. John: I think you need to try the Alnico 2 Pro next, especially if you're hearing the PGN as being a little agressive or "clicky" (my word, not yours! ) I don't hear the 59N and PGN as being as similar as you do but I have my PGN in a Strat. To me, the PGN does have a little less bass than the 59N. Lew

"Clicky"...that's a good word for it, with the upper mid spike the pick attack really seems to come out a lot more, and that seems to bother a lot of people!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

John there are two things you can do as far as magnet swaps are concerned.

The first is the a3 route. You'd have more eq separation, but still the eq would be somewhat similar. The big difference would be in the lower mids, you'd lose some. The highs would become a little more clear, and the uppermids would still be there. So on average I think you'd like that less.

But when I write this I think the boominess you don't like comes from the bass, not the lower mids. In fact if you wanna keep the eq of the PG as it is but lose some lowermids (it may very well be that the boominess in your case comes from the lowermids - afterall PG is an a2 pickup) then a3 is a great choice.

The second route you could take is to get an aged magnet. As I said I think you'd like that. The highs would become rounder, the bass would be less pronounced and even more spongy, lowermids wouldn't change that much. I love those magnets in the neck positions, they make the neck tone BLOOM! (I mean the neck tone is generally soft, but with the pick attack there is a very open sounding non-biting attack.)

I think that's what you gotta try, before getting yourself an a2p.

B

Gosh some great info from all of you guys!
Doc....So how do I go about getting the aged magnet?

And you think the A3 is a step in the wrong direction then?
Doc....And you're right on...It's the bass that I don't like....I have the pickup at 4/32" bass and 3/32" treble..The pickup is almost or is flush to the pickup plastic ring and the low E and A tones dominate..

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

I asked Seymour at UGD about buying some Aged A2's and A5's. He said that he doesn't really like to sell them, because he calibrates each mag to the pickup he's building.

But then he elbow's me and says, you've got my card, let me know if you really want some and I'll get you a couple. I think it just needs to be kept on the down low. He does not want to get into the magnet supply business.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

I asked Seymour at UGD about buying some Aged A2's and A5's. He said that he doesn't really like to sell them, because he calibrates each mag to the pickup he's building.

But then he elbow's me and says, you've got my card, let me know if you really want some and I'll get you a couple. I think it just needs to be kept on the down low. He does not want to get into the magnet supply business.

Thanks Jeff.....ok then it's settled....I'll take 1 aged A2 magnet.... :burnout:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Gosh some great info from all of you guys!
Doc....So how do I go about getting the aged magnet?

And you think the A3 is a step in the wrong direction then?
Doc....And you're right on...It's the bass that I don't like....I have the pickup at 4/32" bass and 3/32" treble..The pickup is almost or is flush to the pickup plastic ring..

Bro, from what you wrote I think a3 is not the right one for you in this situation. But since you have one handy give it a try.

I think the Duncan Custom Shop could sell you one or two dun-aged magnets to be used in neck antiquities. No? Anyways, I checked my drawer and all I have is a dun-aged magnet from one of my bridge ant. I dunno how much aged it is in comparison to the neck ant. But still I can send it to you. If you want just say the word! It needs to be said that you being a close buddy of mine, of course I cannot ask a penny for it. It'd take like 2 weeks and all for it to arrive from Istanbul.

One more thing: Now I don't think your next purchase should be an a2p. No way. By all means do try an ant neck. I really think you'd love it.

B

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Bro, from what you wrote I think a3 is not the right one for you in this situation. But since you have one handy give it a try.

I think the Duncan Custom Shop could sell you one or two dun-aged magnets to be used in neck antiquities. No? Anyways, I checked my drawer and all I have is a dun-aged magnet from one of my bridge ant. I dunno how much aged it is in comparison to the neck ant. But still I can send it to you. If you want just say the word! It needs to be said that you being a close buddy of mine, of course I cannot ask a penny for it. It'd take like 2 weeks and all for it to arrive from Istanbul.

One more thing: Now I don't think your next purchase should be an a2p. No way. By all means do try an ant neck. I really think you'd love it.

B

Thanks Doc...I know you know,that the friendship feelings are mutual....I appreciate the offer also...Maybe I should try the A3 first and then see if my buddy Jeff could steal an aged A2 magnet for me from somewhere? If either of these ideas falls through,then I'd love to try your magnet Doc...I'd also hate to take the only other magnet you own away from you...Let's let you keep your magnet for now and see what happens...It would only take me about 15 minutes to change to the A3....Loosen the strings,pull the stop piece off to the side,unscrew the pickup from it's plastic retainer,dremel tool off the cover and presto,I'm at the magnet....Done this several times already... :wink:

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Now I am getting Antiquity GAS!!! Thanks Guys!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Now I am getting Antiquity GAS!!! Thanks Guys!

Currently I just have "Fart Gas" :smack: :laugh2:

 

[Stratcat]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Currently I just have "Fart Gas" :smack: :laugh2:

:laugh2: :smack: :laugh2: :smack: :32:

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: 59N Vs The PGN....What I Hear

Thanks Doc...I know you know,that the friendship feelings are mutual....I appreciate the offer also...Maybe I should try the A3 first and then see if my buddy Jeff could steal an aged A2 magnet for me from somewhere? If either of these ideas falls through,then I'd love to try your magnet Doc...I'd also hate to take the only other magnet you own away from you...Let's let you keep your magnet for now and see what happens...It would only take me about 15 minutes to change to the A3....Loosen the strings,pull the stop piece off to the side,unscrew the pickup from it's plastic retainer,dremel tool off the cover and presto,I'm at the magnet....Done this several times already... :wink:

Cool. But please don't hesitate to ask. I mean it.

That ant bridge of mine sits in my 95LP standard with an a4 magnet that Lew was very kind to get from Lindy. It sounds great. And if I were to need another ant magnet that would be an excuse to buy another ant bridge from Lew. :laugh2:

So the offer stands. And as I said please don't hesitate to ask.

BTW guys you definitely need to hear the ant neck HB. I am telling you, for my tastes those are the best PAF clones out there. Better than rolphs, better than timbuckers, better than voodoos, whatever! They might be somewhat too soft in some guitars, but still they are definitely a benchmark worth a try.

B