59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

[cliffenstein]

I was just about to sell my Melody Maker and then I decided there must be something I can do to get a thicker, more gibsonesque sound out of it.

First things first...I absolutely LOVE how this guitar feels. However, both attempts at pickup changes (first a Hot Rails and now a Little 59) have resulted in a good, but still thin overall sound. To compare, I have a 1993 American Standard Stratocaster with a JB Jr installed that just blows away my Melody Maker. Both the Strat and the MM are wired pickup to volume pot only. I always play wide open like that. Pickups installed by competent luthiers...everything is installed correctly.

What's the deal here? Do I need to upgrade the pot in the MM? The volume pot in the Strat is the stock 250k one and the volume pot in the MM is the stock 300k one? Could it be the wraparound tailpiece that is the problem? I love this guitar and REALLY want to make it work, but it's not going to work for me if I can't get something more "Gibsony" sounding from it.

My amp is a JCM2000 DSL100 into a JCM800 1960a cab.

Help me if you can.

 

[chadd]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

JBjr is going to be a lot thicker sounding than a lil 59, that's a given. Short of popping in a JBjr, maybe a brass bridge/tailpiece, adding a tone pot or a 250k volume pot would help.

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

JBjr is going to be a lot thicker sounding than a lil 59, that's a given. Short of popping in a JBjr, maybe a brass bridge/tailpiece, adding a tone pot or a 250k volume pot would help.

Thanks for the reply, Chadd.

I originally had a Hot Rails in the MM and it was still too thin sounding. The EQ curve on the Little '59 has more bass than a JB Jr. When I had the Hot Rails I had the 500k tone pot hooked up, but it didn't make a difference either...I could roll off highs, but I didn't like that. I really do play completely wide open all the time. I've been playing guitars with bridge pickup to volume pot only for years and years. A part of me thinks, maybe it's the thin mahogany body, but then I think of SG's...they've got thin Mahogany bodies and they don't sound thin at all!

As for the volume pot...300k vs 250k pot that much of a difference?

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

I just thought of something. These Melody Makers are known to have cheap input jacks. There's no cutting out going on at all with mine, but I wonder if there's a subtle enough problem causing a bit of tone suck, but not loss of volume overall. Anyone experienced this before? Is it even possible?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

You mentioned you tried a tone pot, but you don't like that. Why don't you see if you can get a tone you like by turning down the volume and your amp up. If that works, you can replace the volume pot with whatever value works.

We can't tell from here if the tone is caused by bad acoustics, bad electronics, or simply the wrong pot values. Hopefully it's just a simple pot change.

Another thing that I've noticed on my Epis and Squiers is that they use hollow plastic nuts. The resonance can be improved by replacing with a solid slab of material. Graph Tech and corian are the best materials I've tried.

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

You mentioned you tried a tone pot, but you don't like that. Why don't you see if you can get a tone you like by turning down the volume and your amp up. If that works, you can replace the volume pot with whatever value works.

We can't tell from here if the tone is caused by bad acoustics, bad electronics, or simply the wrong pot values. Hopefully it's just a simple pot change.

Another thing that I've noticed on my Epis and Squiers is that they use hollow plastic nuts. The resonance can be improved by replacing with a solid slab of material. Graph Tech and corian are the best materials I've tried.

This is a Gibson...it has the corian nut. Unplugged, it's extremely resonate...the most resonate of the 4 electrics I own.

Turning down the volume on my guitar and turning the amp up didn't fix the thinner tone issue. It's not like it's some huge, "oh my gosh something's obviously wrong" deal, it's just not the nice, thick Gibson tone I'm used to being able to get with Gibsons and even Epiphones.

Heck, I've got a 1990 Korean made LPJ Special copy with a Burstbucker 2 in it that just sounds completely classic Gibson in every way. And it's the same thickness and light weight as the melody maker and even has a laminate body and bolt on neck!

 

[Clint 55]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

This is a Gibson.

Yeah, I was thinking it was probably acoustically sound pretty much everywhere as far as upgradable hardware. That's a weird one!

Do you think it's the design? The body is a flat slab of mahogany without a cap and the neck is a high radius. Not exactly going to be a warm guitar. I had a guitar just like that which I got rid of. I don't think mahogany is warm. It feels middy to me which cuts away at the bass and body of the tone.

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Yeah, I was thinking it was probably acoustically sound pretty much everywhere as far as upgradable hardware. That's a weird one!

Do you think it's the design? The body is a flat slab of mahogany without a cap and the neck is a high radius. Not exactly going to be a warm guitar. I had a guitar just like that which I got rid of. I don't think mahogany is warm. It feels middy to me which cuts away at the bass and body of the tone.

It has to be a design issue. I can't figure out why a Hot Rails would be huge and thick in a Strat, but not in the Melody Maker. I've always thought pickups were all that really mattered and if I liked the way a guitar looks and feels then I can sort out the sound later. This is a big, giant, learning experience for me, that's for sure!

The only thing that makes me think it's an element of the guitar that can be fixed is when I think about an LP Jr...those have wraparound bridges and sound big and thick like a Gibson should. Even the Joan Jett Melody Maker that came out in 2008...those are basically the same guitar that I have but with a Burstbucker 3 and a standard bridge and tail piece and those can deliver the thick Gibson tone, too.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

I know what you mean! I ended up going through 2 entry level LPs and parting with them because the pickups wouldn't sound to their fullest. I'm really into single coil size humbuckers and I agree that the lil 59 could be at the mercy of the guitar. Also agree that it could be the bridge. I haven't tried that one piece wrap around bridge, I like tune o matics pretty well. But yeah I like all my hardware to be dialed. I change the saddles, nut, and usually tuners on my Squiers.

But yeah, you just have to trust yourself that your pickups, electronics, and set up are all good and that the sound of the guitar itself may not be to your liking.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Does it have to be a humbucker Gibson tone? What about something like a QP single coil, go for more of a P90 Gibson tone?

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Full size humbucker. Time to man up and route that sucker!

Do you have an eq pedal? That can seriously thicken a tone if you cut some highs and boost some low mids.

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Appreciate the tips a lot, everyone. The thing is...I don't do pedals or anything of the sort. If a guitar won't do what I need it to do plugged into my amp then, no matter how cool it looks, it just isn't the right guitar for me. I wouldn't mind getting it routed for a full size humbucker, but I worry that the end result won't be enough.

Case in point...I have a Strat with a JB Jr in it and I have another Strat with a full size JB in it. They sound almost identical. These Seymour Duncan single coil size humbuckers really do bring the goods.

We'll see what I decide to do. I'll be back around when I decide.

 

[Blille]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

By thin you mean no mids?

I have to say, this is the first time I've heard a hot rails described as thin. Usually when people don't like it it's the opposite, too hot or muddy. I'm not familiar with the reissue but I assume it's mahogany?

I don't think you can solve this with pots. If it's a single coil guitar I assume it comes with 250k pots so you can only go up which adds clarity (thinner likely for you).

I wonder if maybe you wired it in parallel or something?




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[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

By thin you mean no mids?

I have to say, this is the first time I've heard a hot rails described as thin. Usually when people don't like it it's the opposite, too hot or muddy. I'm not familiar with the reissue but I assume it's mahogany?

I don't think you can solve this with pots. If it's a single coil guitar I assume it comes with 250k pots so you can only go up which adds clarity (thinner likely for you).

I wonder if maybe you wired it in parallel or something?




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It's lacking the big bottom end. The results were the same with both the Hot Rails and the Little 59. Pickups installed by two different very competent techs. Wiring is pickup straight to 300k volume pot.

 

[Blille]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

It's lacking the big bottom end. The results were the same with both the Hot Rails and the Little 59. Pickups installed by two different very competent techs. Wiring is pickup straight to 300k volume pot.

Got it. I'm surprised you don't describe the pickups differently though because they are. The only thing I can think of left is that the wood and high output makes it very mids heavy for your taste, even with the lil59.

My recommendation would be a Custom P90 but frankly I'm hesitant since I'm afraid you may just not like something in the guitar itself.


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[jeremy]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

i always thought the pup on these was a bit too close to the bridge and it would sound better if there was another 1/2" between them. you could try a 250k volume pot to shave a little high end off.

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

i always thought the pup on these was a bit too close to the bridge and it would sound better if there was another 1/2" between them. you could try a 250k volume pot to shave a little high end off.

Eyeballing it...it appears about the same as Les Paul, but a touch closer than Strat.

I think this guitar is gonna need a full size humbucker to get the rest of the way there. I really REALLY like the guitar and am going to give a full size humbucker routing and installation a go. I'll either put in a full size 59 to keep the reissue year or I'll get a Burstbucker 3 to mirror the Joan Jett signature MM. it'll probably be a month or two before I get to that. I'll report back after it's completed.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Cliffenstein,
I know what it's like to have a guitar that feels great, but isn't achieving the desired sound- Sometimes I try enough variables and get what I'm looking for and sometimes I just move on.

In your case, it sounds like a fullsize humb is likely to get you where you want, however, if it doesn't you can't go back. I'm not trying to be negative, but have you considered looking for an LPjr or an SG that plays and sounds like you are looking for?

Always nice to add a new guitar, it's a lot easier to sell the older ones when a better fit replaces it and it's usually easier to get your money back out of a non-modified gtr

 

[cliffenstein]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

Cliffenstein,
I know what it's like to have a guitar that feels great, but isn't achieving the desired sound- Sometimes I try enough variables and get what I'm looking for and sometimes I just move on.

In your case, it sounds like a fullsize humb is likely to get you where you want, however, if it doesn't you can't go back. I'm not trying to be negative, but have you considered looking for an LPjr or an SG that plays and sounds like you are looking for?

Always nice to add a new guitar, it's a lot easier to sell the older ones when a better fit replaces it and it's usually easier to get your money back out of a non-modified gtr

I may trade it, too. A friend of mine who is a gear hoarder is going to give me a run down of guitars he's willing to trade for it. He's supposed to get back to me sometime today. We'll see what happens.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: 59RI Melody Maker (2007), what to upgrade?...

I may trade it, too.

Open options is a good way to live