A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

[disturb]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I avoid 1970-1989 due to multiple piece bodies. Everything '90 and later that I've played, I liked. Keep in mind that all my guitars were bought on sustain, loudness, and tone unplugged. When I get them home, I set up the action, pickups, etc., for playablility/tone. I have a '94 Classic premium plus, and a 2000 Standard that I gig with every weekend. They're awesome. I always buy used guitars. I like 'em broken in. A lot of people pick up a guitar in a store and because it's not setup the way they like it, it's uncomfortable and they say it sucks.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Yeah^that I can follow quite well
Nothing like getting ones dreamguitar...makes it special beyond trends and such
Niels
Cheers Kaffi

ya for sure.... the new LP Deluxe reissues are a much better lp then the 70's.... and oddly they rae both the same price... used lp Deluxes are selling for $2000 and up around here.... a new LP Deluxe is $2100 Canadian at my local shop... But the 70's pancake body ones are the REAL DEAL as far as getting the one i dreamed about as a teen

But i alwyas thought the 90's LP's were well made.... if i ever find a used Standard from 94-96 era for a good price i'd buy it

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I'm not sure how you can say Gibson rests on it's laurels anymore than Fender. I'm not a Fender basher by any means, but the truth is that neither Fender or Gibson have changed the basic design of their guitars in almost 50 years. There are just as many complaints about neck pocket problems and finish issues with Fenders currently, let alone the CBS era in the 70's. Maybe it's just price? Fender guitars are cheaper to produce, so they are not sold at the dollar level of Gibsons.

I just think it's a waste of energy to run down a product that someone else is legitimely asking for advice on.

 

[big_black]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I believe it's fairly obtuse to state that all guitars produced by any company, Gibson or otherwise, are completely worthless for a period of 30 years. No company can sell products for 30+ years if the product is that poor.

My SG is perfect in nearly every way, and it's an '04 model. The people who make blanket statements really don't know what they are talking about...I think it's pretty obvious. I've own a Japanese SG copy and they feel totally different my Standard. The Satndard felt better to me, but that is my opinion. When we talk about feel that is all subjective. Most of it is not based on anything concrete..a lot of it is an emotional connection, the physical aspect of resonance, and hell..maybe what we heard on the Board here last week.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I've owned a few here and there...

It's all about what you're looking for in the guitar. I don't believe there's a block of "bad years" to avoid, but there's characteristics of guitars that go along with the years they were produced. Sort of like how cars change with the model years, Gibson and the LP changed.

In 1969 when Norlin took over Gibson a lot of changes happened in quick succession. The headstock angle changed, the size and shape of the headstock changed, a volute was added behind the nut, the tops were made of 3 pieces, the body was cut into 2 pieces, the binding layout was changed the finish formula was different, different wood was used (weight and resonance), the neck joint was changed different hardware contractors were used, the size and shape of the neck changed... later on they changed the body back to one piece, changed the neck to a 3 piece maple laminate, changed hardware again, started production in Nashville, attempted to get back to the "59" specs... later they attempted to keep up with what was going on in music and trends, factory Kahlers, heavier guitars for "mass and sustain..." then Henry bought the joint and started realizing that people wanted the 50's guitars- the "Pre-Historics" came out, the Classic series, all the variations of the Classic series and then the Historics... later yet the headstock size shape and angle and hardware revert back to the 50's style LPs...

You have to be able to make up your own mind as to what is important to you, and not listen to a bunch of dorks on the intArweb declare "1974 Les Pauls suck- I played one at GC last week and it sucked," or "this 75 Deluxe is the coolest guitar because it was made in 1975..." While I don't recall ever playing an 80s Gibson I really liked, TGWIF has one that is the cat's pajamas for him. I've owned plenty of 70s LPs and they were fine for what they were for me at the time= They were inexpensive guitars that put out. Now they're considered "vintage." I don't think the specs on those guitars are particularly desirable- I'll take any 90s or 00s guitar before I'd consider a Norlin LP- and that's not considering the price. The features of the newer LPs are just "better" to me.

My favorite guitar is a 2001 Historic R8. In all the ways I look at as important, it's better than all my other guitars- including my 1959 LP Special. Feel, vibe, sound, looks, weight, resonance... this guitar is "it" for me.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I agree with Jeff H. Gibson has always made great guitars, with a few exceptions.....and those exceptions usually have to do with the nut/setup.
I find that the best "affordable" Les Pauls were made between 88 - 2001.
I don't know what's been going on lately, but most of the ones I've played in stores from 2001 till now have been kinda shoddy.

Recently, I'd say that 94-98 could be considered the gems. Most of the best wood used by Gibson came out of those years. I think their quality went up in the mid-late nineties, mostly because PRS was turning out such fantastic wood, and Gibson followed suit. I'm not just talking about maple tops....I'm talking about the mahogany.

And of course, a Gibson always needs a pro setup upon purchase. Too bad it's the truth, but it is. Once the nut is cut perfectly and the setup is spot on, most Gibsons are a joy to play. The slow 'tubbies' are the ones on the wall at the store. Mine are setup with medium low action Eb w/11's, and I can play just as fast as I can with a Tom Anderson w/10's.

 

[Captain Tightpants]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I agree with Jeff H. Gibson has always made great guitars, with a few exceptions.....and those exceptions usually have to do with the nut/setup.
I find that the best "affordable" Les Pauls were made between 88 - 2001.
I don't know what's been going on lately, but most of the ones I've played in stores from 2001 till now have been kinda shoddy.

Recently, I'd say that 94-98 could be considered the gems. Most of the best wood used by Gibson came out of those years. I think their quality went up in the mid-late nineties, mostly because PRS was turning out such fantastic wood, and Gibson followed suit. I'm not just talking about maple tops....I'm talking about the mahogany.

And of course, a Gibson always needs a pro setup upon purchase. Too bad it's the truth, but it is. Once the nut is cut perfectly and the setup is spot on, most Gibsons are a joy to play. The slow 'tubbies' are the ones on the wall at the store. Mine are setup with medium low action Eb w/11's, and I can play just as fast as I can with a Tom Anderson w/10's.

+1. I've got a couple of '77's that have always played beautifully, I'll never get rid of them. They play and sound just as good as my '55 junior. I've also played some real dogs from the same era that I wouldn't take as a freebie.

And I too think that the 90's Les Pauls, the Studio in particular, are some of the best guitars Gibson has ever made. Really, guitars are and can be a very personal thing, one man's dog is another's gem.

 

[MartinSixStringCustoms]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I believe it's fairly obtuse to state that all guitars produced by any company, Gibson or otherwise, are completely worthless for a period of 30 years. No company can sell products for 30+ years if the product is that poor.

Some of you may dislike Gibson, and that is fine. It's no secret that many Les Paul's from certain era's are considered dogs...but there are just as many examples of fine instruments that someone loves and treasures. There are equally as many Fender, Guild, Martin (ad nauseum) that many "experts" here or on the internet would cite as being of dubious quality also.

If you don't like Gibson, that is fine. That's why there are so many different guitars. But when someone come's looking for advice, how about something realistic being suggested, such as "the 70's are generally acknowledged as being a time when quality control at Gibson was suspect, so I would advise playing any guitar that you purchase to make sure you like the way it feels", or something along those lines?

Regardless of whether it's Gibson, Fender or anyone, it' irritating to see people blasting an entire product line they don't personally care for. If everyone played the same guitars thru the same amps life sure would be boring.

I couldn't agree more. What's more suspect of certain guitars are the people who comment on them.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Hehe well keep your Gibsons
I never play them anyways

And I too think that the 90's Les Pauls, the Studio in particular, are some of the best guitars Gibson has ever made. Really, guitars are and can be a very personal thing, one man's dog is another's gem.

And stop being so sensibel
It is fun to see the Gibson folks get upset
Niels

 

[Aceman]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Hehe well keep your Gibsons
I never play them anyways
And stop being so sensibel
It is fun to see the Gibson folks get upset
Niels

What a chump response from someone who just got ripped a new one!!!!!

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

The thing that always confounded me about finding certain eras is the blanket statement that nothing that came out at that time is worth your money.

Now, just about any mass-production shop can crank out a dog here or there. Even a custom shop will end up with something on the market that's just not that good but is out there because it had been paid for and needed to be delivered.

The fact of the matter is that most guitar players are hoarders. When we find something that works great for us, we hang on to it. In the case of some of us, we hang onto dozens of them at a time.

As time goes on the guitars that are being hung onto are removed from the general circulation. Those that are forming opinions of the instruments are generally doing so by the ones they're finding in shops, the ones that maybe aren't the really great examples of the production at its best.

No one can deny the physics of some of the sins of the Norlin era. Pancake bodies? Sure, even on paper and in real life it's just not something that you would ever want to see. But, yet, some folks will swear up and down that the pancake body Paul they've had since they bought it in the 70's is fantastic. And certainly we've all seen them used and sound great; look at someone like Mike Ness who I see playing a pancake body Goldtop. He gets GREAT tone out of it!

Gibson's an easy target to jump all over. The changes they made which were generally negative are famous. But the Pauls are those rare beasts that are somewhere between a tool for a musician and a status symbol. I love my Strats, all three of them. But none of them hold that same balance; they're all utilitarian for me.

I own two Les Paul Custom clones because I wanted them and use them as tools; they do what a Les Paul does physically. But alot of why I have them is that I really cherish my 73' Deluxe.

 

[Stevo]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I guess I got lucky. I really wanted a 70s era Les Paul and got a really nice 77 Standard with cherry sunburst. It is heavy but I am a manly man so no problem The action on my LP is better than any regular production standard or classic LP that I have played. The sustain is pretty killer too.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Here's how I look at it:

I vote with my dollars. I think there are good guitars from all of the decades, but you may have to hunt a bit harder for some.

During the 1970's I owned a late '60s--early '70s ES-330TD long-neck, which was a tremendous guitar; but my experience during that time with a same-era ES-150DCN was pretty bad. My 1975 Les Paul '55 Special was a great guitar, but I've seen some of those guitars from 1976 and 1977 that I thought were horrible (and their owner's may respectfully disagree). I hung on to the Special until 2001.

I didn't come back around to Les Pauls until 2003, when I bought two used LP 1960 Classic Premium Plus models from the mid-1990's. Gibson made some changes in the late-'80s; but by the mid-'90s, the materials, design, and quality were really starting to come around. Last year, I bought a 2005 LP Supreme; and earlier this year a '58 Historic Re-Issue. These guitars are not without flaws, but they are special guitars, indeed. As someone mentioned earlier, from about 1994--they start getting really good.

So, at today's prices--I think many of the 1970's Les Pauls are overpriced, especially when compared to late-'90s-until-present models. There's just no way that I would pay the money they are asking for a Norlin-era LP when for the same money I can get a new guitar. For a few dollars more, the Historic takes it to a whole 'nother level--these are FABULOUS guitars! I thought my acquiring the '58 Historic would finally cure my G.A.S., but I can't WAIT to get another one!

There are some good deals to be had out there on some of the older guitars, to be sure. BUT, for me--the modern Les Paul is a better choice--especially if it is a Historic model.

Bill

 

[Vincent]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Thanks guys... am now in the market for a mid-90s manufactured 1960 classic reissue. Preferably in honeyburst

 

[Pastor of Muppets]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I got my first LP in '89 - I tried several new Standards and they were without exception horrible, really nasty necks. I ended up with an early 80s Custom, pre-loved, which was pretty nice, but my 2000 Classic (also secondhand) hands down blows it away in every single department.

Like others have said, I personally think buying used is the way to go with LPs (and guitars generally) and that unless you want a specific year/period for reasons of sentiment, then try before you buy - there will have been dogs made in '58 and beauties in '88, no question.

 

[Captain Tightpants]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Thanks guys... am now in the market for a mid-90s manufactured 1960 classic reissue. Preferably in honeyburst

An excellent choice. Buddy of mine has one that is a real joy to play!

 

[54stratlover]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

I have a few different LP's. I have played great LP's from many era's. I have not really developed an affinity for late 70's early 80's les pauls. One piece of advice. Buy used, and try out the guitars. I generally like used guitars cause they have been broke in. Buying a guitar or even trying out a guitar from GC or Sam Ash is going to be a surely disapointing experience in my book. Most guitars are not sent from the factory with a playable setup. WHY? you ask. Feel is subjective. A guitar needs to be setup once it is bought. Gearjoneser went over this thouroughly in a post some time ago. That is why this gets old, the whole new guitar set up thing. ANYWAY.....I think the late 80's til now LP's have some great products. One QC issue with the new LP's I had. Nitro takes time to cure. i played mine anyway and some of the red color of the neck bled over into the binding. But you know what? Thats all right with me. The guitar is a '58 RI Cloud 9 and is sounds stunning. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Have fun in your search.
Play many guitars before buying.
Hope whatever you get works out for ya!!

Craig

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Keep in mind while reading this that my favorite guitar ever is a 62 LP....

Tons of Gibson models are overpriced, new, old, Standards, Custom Shop.... A guitar in that price range should not have the quality control issues they do. Is the poor setup thing like Martin, where they intend for you to have it personally done and include it in the cost? If not, that's pretty unacceptable. Of course it can't be perfect for everybody, but it could be better than bad.

Now, just as Gibson needs to understand that they're ripping off their loyal customers, you loyal customers need to step back and understand that there's a big difference between people saying, "Their QC is crap", which it is, and "Gibson is crap", which they're not. I will readily admit that I think SGs are one of the few models that's priced appropriately, and what's funny is the horrid mistakes seem to rarely pop up on them, or any of the sub $1400 models.

It's also worth pointing out that I've heard just about every one of the "I don't care if the finish is messed up" Gibson fans busting on an a cheaper import manufacturer for having such issues. Gibson customers who bought $2500 Les Pauls with finish flaws talking smack about a $500 Ibanez having a poor finish or shoddy hardware sounds kinda screwy if you think about it.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

Thanks guys... am now in the market for a mid-90s manufactured 1960 classic reissue. Preferably in honeyburst

FYI, those Classic's are NOT a reissue...I know the guardplate says 1960 on it but I have no idea why...those guitars are about as far removed from a 1960 reissue LP as you could get.

Anyway...most classics I have played have been great guitars. I don't care for the slim taper neck nor do I care for the stock pickups but the guitars overall are usally real nice...good luck in your search!

 

[Aceman]

Re: A Question for the Real Les Paul Experts

My 79 Standard RULES EVERYONE! But, that is that particular guitar. This isn't like wine where a hot summer craps up all the grapes in the valley and most of the booze is grape juice plus....

And It's a heavy mofo - but I like that...

Play them all, pick the ONE that moves your bowels.