Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Aceman

I am your doctor of love!
This question comes around a lot. I'm jotting down (my personal) wisdom on the topic that I can easily find and link as a response. Please feel free to add to or discuss.

After I got into pickup swaps/upgrades, I went through a phase where i put a lot of classic PAF's in Les Paul guitars (Gibson and Epiphone, and others), and a few other things. Specifically, I traded, mixed and matched the 59, the A2P, and the Pearly Gates every which way.

I don't know about the A2P SLASH, or the Whole Lotta Humbucker, or any of these newfangled specialty tweaks. And I am not any kind of expert on the Seth. Hopefull someone will add a little on those below. I also did this before mag swaps were all the rage for tonal futzing and fidgeting. So here they are, the big three, the meat and potatoes of the Duncan PAF line, as experienced by me. Hope this helps!

Neck / Bridge, and in a Les Paul….these combo's ALL went in one or the other Les Paul guitar, and while I was playing in a Classic Rock band

59 / 59: The classic "PAF" as it was likely intended to be according to Duncan. Not that many/any Gibson windings were this or exactly this. In the bridge a great tight bass sound and a cutting high end with a light mid scoop (to my ears). A great sound for a mid pushing Les Paul a great all around balanced sound. The neck yields a fat but tight sound in the bass, and the highs still cut through. Great for clean chording. In my opinion, this is simply one of the best "all around" combos you could do. With a good amp or a couple of pedals, Jazz, Blues, Country, Metal, Rock…it is all right there. I will comment that in a bassy/muddy/dark Les Paul, the neck may sound boomy-muddy. Obviously the two 59's are a good match. The middle position, however, doesn't do much new or interesting IMO.

Pearly Gates / Pearly Gates: My favorite PAF combo period of all everything ever. The Reverend Billy G agrees. Give that little ole band from Texas a spin, ZZ Top, and you will see what I mean. I think (and this is just me, Billy G and a lot of others) that when people talk about "magic" PAF's from the 50's, this is that sound. The neck is the ultimate Les Paul sound ever IMO. This pup should be stock there. It has a little less bass than a 59. Nice in an extra fat boomy LP neck. It has a sharp spike in the upper mids that really lets it cut through. It's nice and bright. And, the A2 mag adds the signature sweetness on top. The very top though. It is by no means sweet and syrupy. More like icing on cake. Just a fantastic neck pickup. The bridge is just awrnry and gnarly and just has a tude that the 59 doesn't. It's not start ice picky, but it has a serious bite. It is a bright bridge pup. I actually enjoy playing blues or metal with this pup. People talk about a "fizziness" to this pickup. It isn't a fizziness like distortion. It is more the quality of the fundamental. A Strat, or even an A5 is kind of glassy. This one is more rough. I think it feels kind of organic in it's imperfection. Others may prefer the 59's silky perfection (or see that as sterile). This pickup responds really well to volume and tone control. I like to say/think you can turn down a PG a little and get a nice 59-ish sort of vibe. You can't get a 59 into a PG zone. Again, they match perfectly neck to bridge, but neck and bridge don't do much for me. Some say the bridge is too bright. I used a PG in my #1 bridge for a while and it is a pretty bright guitar, but I had a stock 300k pot in it also. I have a bridge PG in a Dean Cadillac wound to 8k with 500k pots. Super awesome pickup. Many say the bass is kind of loose. No doubt it is not as tight as a 59, but I wouldn't call it sloppy either. My favorite pickups for clean all around.

A2P / A2P: This is classic A2 magnet territory. Big bass and mids, with super fat highs. A lot of people throw out Slash as a fast example. No doubt these will get you right there. But they do a whole lot more. And even though they are A2 mags, I find the bass surprisingly solid (not ceramic tight and solid, or even A5 magnet). I found these really good for Old Aerosmith, actually. The neck is just big and fat a singing. (Sorry, but Sweet Child is the obvious example.) This is definitely NOT the pickup for a dark/muddy guitar. It is a great choice for jazz, however, and any kind of fat blues. The bridge is a great pickup for really evening out a bright guitar. The bass will soften and warm a strangled bright bridge, the mids will really crunch, and the top will tame a harsh high end. You will either get a really nice very sweet and balanced sound out of this, or a nice rhythm with a fat singing lead sound that still cuts. These are probably my favorite bridge rhythm sounds overall for distortion. Great for Allman's slide work using the bridge. As always, a perfect match, and the middle position to me was always a little too fat. Not that I did that a lot. Probably spent the least time with this combo of all of them. Just not my thing. Clearly Slash's thing. And a lot of others. Definitely use 500k pots all around here. A great set to tame an overly bright Les Paul (they do exist!! Or perhaps a bright Epiphone - Lots of those made from mystery wood).

59 / PG: This is kind of a cool combo if what you want is a "lead" pickup in the bridge and a "rhythm" pickup in the neck. Definitely better for a non-muddy Les Paul. Maybe a touch harsh in a very bright one (although I wouldn't think so). Perhaps consider keeping the 300k's for pots if doing this. Wasn't a real favorite combo of mine. I will mention that the both on position is very cool here. Lot's of highs, but the PG's really adds mids to the mix, and the 59 neck adds some bass. A very full even sound with both pups on, with lots of highs.

59 / A2P: Again, a combo I really didn't hang with. Very similar to the PG except that not nearly as bright. In a really dark guitar this might not be good as you'll get neck mud, and maximum bass in the bridge. That said, in a really bright guitar you may get fantastic rhythm sounds. Obviously the neck plus bridge tones won't be as bright as a PG in the bridge. This might be good for a bright tight guitar where you do a lot of bridge rhythm with dirt and clean chording in the neck.

PG / 59: Now this is a fantastic combo IMO. Particularly nice in a darker woofier guitar. The PG does it's magic in the neck. The 59 adds some nice tight bass to the bridge and nice highs for leads in the bridge. The two on combo is fantastic because the bridge adds the sharp and the neck adds the smooth, the PG puts a little more mid, and the 59 adds a tight bottom from the bridge.

PG / A2P: I refer to this as the ultimate balanced tone. Basically you are putting the darkest pickup in the bridge, and the brightest pickup in the neck. They both have that A2 magnet tone about them as well. Fatter, rounder than typical A5s. This is the combo if you want distinctive yet similar tones from each position. Excellent for an overall bright guitar with a boomy neck. With both pickups on, you get a maximum bass and mid spectrum, but without overdoing the bass from the neck. The highs will be sweet, but present. Definitely another 500k pot guitar.

A2P / 59: And odd combo to me, but if you dig an extra fat neck to go with your classic bridge, this is it. I'd use this if I played a lot of neck leads and used the bridge for rhythm. The obvious thing here is when both are on, you add sharp bridge highs with fat neck tones for a very different sound. Round AND cutting - excellent!!! In fact, when I had this in an LP, it pretty much became my 'leads only guitar' and I did a LOT of pup changing during leads. However…this is also the big bass sound. A muddy/boomy guitar is going to be a monster in both lower register with this combo on. Consider it tight in the bridge, and loose in the neck. Maybe blues on the neck and metal on the bridge? Possibly a better all lead combo with three solid tonal option at the flick of a switch.. Might try a 500k neck and a 300k bridge pot for more balance on the highs. Wasn't a favorite of mine, but may work great for you.

A2P / PG: Maximum Range Guitar. The fattest sound in the neck, the brightest in the bridge. You add highs from the bridge, bass from the neck and a lower and upper mid boost with both on for a big sound. Again, A2 magnets all around for a certain sweetness. This is for those who really want to go from fat to cutting and gnarly between the bridge and neck. And a certain looseness (or lack of super-tightness). I like this sound better than the PG / A2P combo, but again, that's gonna depend on the guitar and your tastes. I actually have something similar to this in my #1 - except it's a T-top and a Distortion! The point is you get a fantastic range of sounds and can blend with volume. Very cool cleans potential here with bite from the bridge and fat from the neck. Might be tough to find a good amp setting for all sounds on both pickups though.

Again, these pickups are all good for matching output-wise. Well, I hope you find that helpful. Just a matter of what you need for your guitar. Also, a general note. I like the sound of ceramics in the bridge for tightness, tone, and such. But, with an uber-gain amp, you may well find that these pups all offer more clarity, tone, and articulation.
 
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Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Really cool post :) thanks for sharing all that. This should help future members before they post the millionth "which pickups for my les paul" threads....

It would help if someone can chime in on the Seth's, WLH and maybe even custom 5 in their LP's
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

I will second the sentiment as it relates to the pearly gates pickups - to 95% of les paul "what pickup?" threads the pearly gates is the answer. The bridge is also great split and in parallel. You can get well into tele territory even with the shorter scale and darker woods of a les paul.

I recently swapped in a 59/custom with UOA5 in the bridge, and while that pickup is clear, and huge sounding, the pearly gates has this very urgent upper midrange something, I don't really know how to describe it, but there's this interplay between bright and meaty that's very very rock n' roll, that the 59/custom lacks. Of all the bridge humbuckers I've played, it's the most harmonically active of the lot.

As far as Seths,unfortunately I've only tried the seth bridge in the neck of a telecaster, so I can't really opine on them as well. But I like what I've heard so far in my limited experience.
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Great post Aceman. Thanks for summarizing all those hours of research. Great that you included suggestions based on the base tone of the guitar e.g. for a bright guitar I'd try out the APiis after reading your post. Have you tried the WLH's yet? Would be interested to see how you'd compare them to the 59, APii and PGs.
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Brobucker (beefed up A5 PAF)
Seth Lover set
Whole Lotta Humbucker set
PG set, but love the neck especially
Throbak MXV PAF's
Gibson BB 1/2 set
57 Classic set
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Subscribed and bookmarked, some really good information to be found here. How about adding PAF's from other brands as a sort of extension to the thread?
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

It was a lot of hours with an Iron in front of the TV.

And a bunch of playing too.

I have a split PG set currently and I really like them. I have also had a split 59 in the neck of a Tele before. It was alright. I get a way better single feel from a PG split than a 59. But I'm no split expert. If someone who is a real split guy could add that on the 59/PG/A2P to this thread that would be awesome.

Also - I would actually welcome a mag swap commentary on this. I know there are a lot of PG A5 and 59 A2 guys out there. throw down the knowledge!

Gotta get Seths in here too!
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Not much to add except that volume and tone pots (250K vs. 300K vs. 500K) and also the way the tone control is connected to the volume pot (before or after) can make a big difference in the sound.

The "50's Mod" is simple: in a Les Paul, connect the tone capacitor to the middle terminal (the output) of the volume pot for a brighter, clearer tone - especially when the volume pot is turned down. Helps eliminate "mud".

"Modern Wiring" is just as simple: in a Les Paul, connect the tone capacitor to the #1 terminal (the input) of the volume pot for a thicker and fuller tone that's not as bright as 50's wiring. Your sound might lose more treble and sound muddier when the volume control is turned down but the overall sound of the guitar might sound thicker and fuller, and have less sizzle - especially with overdrive pedals.

Comparing the sound of the same pickups in the same guitar with 50's wiring vs. Modern Wiring can make the same set of pickups sound like a different set of pickups.

In theory, when the volume control is turned up all the way, many players think there's no difference in sound between 50's Wiring and Modern Wiring.

But there is. The same set of pickups with 50's wiring will have more treble sizzle and with Modern Wiring will tend to have a fuller, ballsier sound.

Almost all guitars (Stratocasters, etc.) are wired with Modern Wiring: the tone control is connected to the pickup itself - before the pickup's signal passes into the volume control.

Almost all Hamers are wired with 50's Wiring: the tone control is connected after the volume control. Actually, it's connected directly to the Output Jack!

50's Wiring was used on some of the very earliest Gibson Les Pauls - pre-1955 models with P90 pickups. I believe the one I saw it in was a '54.
 
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Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

You hear things a bit different than I do but that's what's great about us as players ...we're all different!

Also, just saying...the Alnico II Pro isn't a PAF but if you are going to stretch to include it bring the Jazz to the party too...same coils so it's as much a PAF as the Alnico II Pro.


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Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Yeah the Alnico II Pro sounds very 'modern' to my ears, I don't hear a lot of the mythical 'PAF' quality to it (I know I know, almost no two PAF's were the same, but it's a label our ear understands nonetheless).

They sound too fat, too warm, too smooth.

I'm going to advocate for Seths being added: The basic description is that they are magical, and if you are a blues, RnB, soul, funk, classic rock, jazz etc guitarist (any of the 'classic' styles) and you haven't tried them, you are doing a disservice to yourself.
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

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I think you've changed my interests in replacing my SG's pickups with a set of Pearly Gates instead of the Custom and 59.
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

You know, I can see the arguments for the A2P being a "modern sound." And I considered throwing the Jazz in there, but only had one for a minute in the neck.

I think the A2P represents the old fat blues PAF, IMO. It sort of straddles the line and can go either way. Just depends on your playing and gear. And A2P in a bright amp and a 335. Gonna get my BB King On!
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

I don't hear any of the "PAF" qualities in the A2P or the Jazz, for that matter. I don't consider'em as PAFs or even "PAF-like".

However, wheil being fully-bodied sounding, they have a sharp pick attack quality and an articulation that make'em very appealing for modern Jazz styles, Smooth Jazz and specially, Be-Bop Jazz guitar music.



I have the first prototype of the "Smooth Vintage Whisperer™" (A3/A2) mag set modded Jazz set in Gertrude, my Jazz Big Box, and it's simply NOT going anywhere anytime soon. ;)

HTH,
 
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Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Perhaps PAF is the wrong phrase. Low output hum bucker? Classic Humbucker? Most popular hum buckers?
 
Re: Aceman's Official Which PAF? Thread

Perhaps PAF is the wrong phrase. Low output hum bucker? Classic Humbucker? Most popular hum buckers?

I agree. The SD info pages list some humbuckers as having Vintage Output. Includes:

SH-18 Whole Lotta Humbucker
SH-2 Jazz Model
SH-1 59 Model
SH-55 Seth Lover Model
APH-1 Alnico II Pro
APH-2 Alnico II Slash
SHPG-1 Pearly Gates
And some Antiquities.

Those with experience of real old guitars may be able to tell the difference immediately between a PAF and a non-PAF pickup, but they are unlikely to need the help of this thread. Others asking for advice like me who have never played a Les Paul or copy of any age (except for a few minutes until decided I don't like the playing mechanics) are more likely to want a wider choice where being truer to PAF style tone is just one consideration.
 
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